From the wednesday we can clearly see this. Sometimes it can be good to hold of from national focuses just to get the points needed for a minister or law switch.
- 3
- 3
National focus cost 1 politcal point per day
- Thread starter Denkt
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Well spotted - this is good 
. I wonder if it's possible to make some 'hard' NFs (with good payoffs) cost 2 points a day, to add some variety?
. I wonder if it's possible to make some 'hard' NFs (with good payoffs) cost 2 points a day, to add some variety?
I understand why for changing something political power is needed, but why for appointing people to vacant positions? That has always seemed weird to me, where you just have a couple guys running the country because there isn't enough political power to have a full cabinet.
In previous HOI you did always have ministers in charge of every position but in HOI4 they have changed that, maybe because it make for more interesting choices, especially in the early game like do I pick a company that help me develop a better tank or do I pick a minister that help me build military factories.
I assume ministerial positions will always be occupied? It's an abstraction to represent replacing someone who has their own political influence and supporters, I would suggest. Hitler couldn't just kick out the whole Nazi party and replace them all with whomever he liked, not without major resistance. Even an absolute dictator needs allies and supporters.
- 1
Clearly you haven't paid attention to how the American system has been working the last few years.
- 1
- 1
They aren't until you get enough PP to fill them from what I've seen.
I have, and even then it's appointing new people midway through the term, not appointing the initial cabinet.
It's an arbitrary choice in my opinion. At least have an initial cabinet in place, and then pick companies. Even then I don't see how that costs political power in any real sense, especially in an authoritarian government.
I'm all for interesting choices, but ones that don't make sense when translated into the real world bother me.
- 1
Just imagine Hitler is replacing uncooperative ministers one at a time
With this system you have to make meaningful choices. I'm looking forward to it.
- 2
You can probably mod so that you start with a full cabinet in game, you can pick the most historic ones too, problem solved.
This is very good. More choices and dilemmas are always good for gameplay.
- 1
Well I think that every thing that is useful "In Game" has to be worked for and choices apply is great. The start point in 1936 seems ground zero, no ministers you want, no corporates you want, and you have to earn political power to appoint them seems to make the pre war game ... 1936 to 1939 a game to have choices strategy and thus consequences and fun.
- 2
I got the same impression, that you picking your ministers and balancing whether you would rather have an armaments or general staff guy earlier, or pick a particular thing from the NF tree earlier, was all part of how you prioritized your buildup to the war. If you're anything like me, the war building and preparation was often the most fun part of the game, so the more you can do it "from scratch," the better. Later start dates will no doubt have most if not all ministers/companies already in place (subject to replacement of course.)
I certainly think a mod is the best option here (other than the devs returning to what they have done for all other Paradox games that they inexplicably departed from for some reason). The German cabinet was not empty in 1936.
I'm going to pick the ministers I want (I have no interest in my game playing out exactly the same way as IRL), but I want to have historical ministers in place to start with.
Always good? No, not really. I'm a fan of choice, immersion, and dilemma as much as the next guy but if you arbitrarily make a cabinet not exist for the sake of using up political points that's just ahistorical, unrealistic, and ruins the immersion for me.
1936 German Government:
Chancellor: Adolf Hitler (would hold office until April 1945)
Vice-Chancellor: [Vacant] (would be filled by Hermann Goring in February 1941)
Minister of Foreign Affairs: Konstantin von Neurath (would hold office until February 1938)
Minister of the Interior: Wilhelm Frick (would hold office until August 1943)
Minister of Finance: Lutz Graf Schwerin von Krosigk (would hold office until April 1945)
Minister of Justice: Franz Gurtner (would hold office until January 1941)
Minister of War: Werner von Blomberg (would hold office until February 1938)
Minister for Economics: Hjalmar Schacht (would hold office until November 1937)
Minister for Food and Agriculture: Richard Walther Darre (would hold office until May 1942)
Minister for Labour: Franz Seldte (would hold office until April 1945)
Minister for Postal Affairs: Paul Freiherr von Eltz-Rubenach (would hold office until February 1937)
Minister for Transport: Paul Freiherr von Eltz-Rubenach (would hold office until February 1937)
Minister of Propaganda: Joseph Goebbels (would hold office until April 1945)
Minister of Aviation: Hermann Goring (would hold office until April 1945)
Minister for Science and Education: Bernhard Rust (would hold office until April 1945)
Minister for Church Affairs: Hanns Kerrl (would hold office until December 1941)
Ministers Without Portfolio (Reich Ministers): Hans Frank (until April 1945), Rudolf Hess (until 1941)
I know the game doesn't have that many minister slots, but the fact is that all of the important positions had been filled in 1936. Many of these same ministers are in-game, with their own modifiers, yet for some reason they have to be appointed to offices they should already hold.
There are plenty of consequences and choices to be had pre-war. What national foci do you go for? What military units do you build? What do you do in terms of diplomacy and espionage? Who do you support in Spain? How many/what kind of factories do you build? Do you build up a resource stockpile or invest resources immediately? What techs do you research?
The buildup is my favorite part too (which is why I'll get a 1933 start mod as soon as one is made), but part of the fun of a buildup is overcoming the challenges you're faced with. You have to build a military from scratch as Germany. You have to modernize a huge but woefully under-equipped and poorly-led military as the USSR. You have to overcome huge financial and social problems as the US, France, and Britain. If you don't like your cabinet, that's just something else to overcome. You shouldn't arbitrarily wipe the slate clean just because, that takes away the challenge of creating something out of the status quo, because there is no status quo
Basically I'm hoping there's a better explanation for non-existent cabinets other than arbitrary game-design. I'm well aware that HoI isn't a historical simulator, but at the same time history is supposed to be accurate up until you unpause the game. Why did this stop applying to cabinets all of a sudden?
Arbitrary choices are not fun. They break the immersion because they are, by definition, unrealistic. I'm a fan of choice, but I don't value choice above all else. If you want a clean slate, play Civilization. If you want a historical sandbox, play a Paradox game. The fun is seeing what you can do within the historical situation. The fun is finding how you would have done things differently.
- 2
My perspective is that if you don't have a cabinet position filled it means its filled by someone non extraordinary that provides nor bonus or malus, if you want to get someone good into the position, then you have to spend political points to convince that person to do it, or justify to others your choice, or whatever other reasons you can imagine, its a good abstraction.
So while I totally agree with you, I also see that this opens more gameplay possibilities which even if unrealistic, sounds acceptable.
- 4
I would agree, except that currently you can put in place ministers with modifiers who should already be in office. Schacht, von Blomberg, Goring, Goebbels, Darre, and Hess are all already in office in 1936.
So no, these are not inconsequential people. In fact, Paradox gave them modifiers already. They were in office in 1936, and I don't see why they shouldn't be in-game.
Honestly I just don't understand this design decision that is present in no other Paradox game to my knowledge. CK2 had historical rulers and characters, as did EU4, as did Vicky 2 and all HoI series games before now. Now they make this arbitrary decision to leave the bounds of reality for the sake of using up some additional political points? It just doesn't make sense.
Help me out here, there has to be a better reason than "choice" because if we go down that route, why not have players draw custom borders at the beginning, place all geography and provinces, etc? That would be providing a "blank slate" that allows for more "possibilities" and "choice."
(I apologize if I sound harsh, it just seems that Paradox totally departed from their usually good record with this decision and that bothers me)
- 4
- 1
They are empty to allow ahistorical play.
If they start filled and you have the current rate of PP gain then nobody would change them and instead they would just cause coups all over the map
If they started filled and you had a much reduced PP gain then anybody who wanted to change them would be out of luck
By starting empty the player has to make decisions about where to focus their country whilst leaving room for ahistorical play.
Sid Meier once said that a game is a series of interesting choices.
(it's not like the people aren't in the game, you're free to choose them if you want)
If they start filled and you have the current rate of PP gain then nobody would change them and instead they would just cause coups all over the map
If they started filled and you had a much reduced PP gain then anybody who wanted to change them would be out of luck
By starting empty the player has to make decisions about where to focus their country whilst leaving room for ahistorical play.
Sid Meier once said that a game is a series of interesting choices.
(it's not like the people aren't in the game, you're free to choose them if you want)
- 9
- 2