- Dec 14, 1999
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Mamelukes are basically the best friend of Hungary, Venice and anyone else who fear the Ottomans..
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Mamelukes are basically the best friend of Hungary, Venice and anyone else who fear the Ottomans..
Its a shame I didn't come across the latter parts of this thread sooner, some excellent work here. And the Weapons Manufactory idea for Krakow is pretty brilliant. Not to mention a lot of the other changes, I always thought that Persia was a huge underachiever too. They can never threaten the OE at all technologically, making them not at all the threat that they were percieved as. Also Peter, would you consider bumping China's beginning military techs to land 5/6 and navy 4? As for the Danish Naval Equipment Works, could we put it Bergen or Oslo maybe? Its a shame putting it in the capital as that prevents one from building a Fine Arts there. 
I do understand though, that manufactories can become quite the target... but i'll play Denmark, so it won't be bad.
*edit* Also, with the Chinese thing I brought up, I know we are talking AoE here, and yes these are the same levels I'm talking about them having in GC. I think them starting with the same tech in both scenarios simulates pretty well their sudden technological stagnation of the latter 15th century.
I do understand though, that manufactories can become quite the target... but i'll play Denmark, so it won't be bad. *edit* Also, with the Chinese thing I brought up, I know we are talking AoE here, and yes these are the same levels I'm talking about them having in GC. I think them starting with the same tech in both scenarios simulates pretty well their sudden technological stagnation of the latter 15th century.
True. Its just that they are really hard to defeat by Turkey (and i was Turkey in the first game i mentioned, so i know it firsthand
)
Turkey is clearly superior. In the one game where Maur was Ottomans the only reason he lost was because he was overconfident early on. He had the capability to destroy me. If he had known that I would come back to haunt him later in the war I am sure his tactics would have changed and annihlated me early.
My other Mameluks game was won only because half of the Ottoman army was infantry and easy to kill on plains.
Oh and Maur... do you call the slaughter of 70,000 Ottomans in Syria in one battle undecisive?
My other Mameluks game was won only because half of the Ottoman army was infantry and easy to kill on plains.
Oh and Maur... do you call the slaughter of 70,000 Ottomans in Syria in one battle undecisive?
The problem is not the Mamelukes theirselves, but the Mamelukes combined with Persia, which make a two or three front war a real possibility for Ottomans in the very beginning. And i think that´s a bit too much.
So if we have Mamelukes we shouldn´t have Persia or viceversa. Remember that, unlike European nations with their web of interests and alliances, Mamelukes and Persians haven´t other kingdoms to effectively threaten them in the rear.
So if we have Mamelukes we shouldn´t have Persia or viceversa. Remember that, unlike European nations with their web of interests and alliances, Mamelukes and Persians haven´t other kingdoms to effectively threaten them in the rear.
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If you have a Mughal Empire as well, I guess the Persians also have a knife at their back
since i have now sceen first hand what a persia/mame alliance can do to the ottomans, If all three were being played, the OE's best bet is to attack the mameluks right away, before the emergence of Persia. Once the Mames are weaked, they should be not much of a worry to you later on. Just make sure to control alexandria before Persia arrives or you might find yourself in a bit of troulbe.
The fight is not impossible for the ottos because they are richer and have better leaders plus better starting techs. Its just, you really get to know the skill of all the players involved once you see something like this happen.
The fight is not impossible for the ottos because they are richer and have better leaders plus better starting techs. Its just, you really get to know the skill of all the players involved once you see something like this happen.
Not till after 1504 at least-Timurids are pathetic.Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
If you have a Mughal Empire as well, I guess the Persians also have a knife at their back
Not to mention last two games with that setting Timurids allied to Persia
Ah, just noticed. I hasn't lost that war, i won itOriginally posted by Prince Eugene
Turkey is clearly superior. In the one game where Maur was Ottomans the only reason he lost was because he was overconfident early on. He had the capability to destroy me. If he had known that I would come back to haunt him later in the war I am sure his tactics would have changed and annihlated me early.
My other Mameluks game was won only because half of the Ottoman army was infantry and easy to kill on plains.
Oh and Maur... do you call the slaughter of 70,000 Ottomans in Syria in one battle undecisive?
It was only getting to costly, and well, there was that Shiite thingie too
(you managed to convert one province, bah!)
Originally posted by DarthMaur
Not till after 1504 at least-Timurids are pathetic.
Not to mention last two games with that setting Timurids allied to Persia
its a silly alliance.
it came into the game as the mughals previously allied with the persians. right from the start i thought it was a bad idea, but since persia is more financially sound, i could not do much about it right away.
you are right, any time post 1500 the mughals should be prime to expand a little west. its a hard fight by all means, but with Babur, play your cards right or you better hope persia screws up somehow. The war could vary so much as to be the total destruction of either nation, which is interesting because with most european nations its pretty cut and dry on who can beat up on who.
True enough. The best thing they can do is lie low and kill Gujarat, while waiting for Babur to change the equation.
Yes, a Timurid/Persian/Mameluke war against the Ottomans early on would tend to leave the Ottomans suffering, I guess - as it should be
Not to mention last two games with that setting Timurids allied to Persia
Probably best to play Ottomans, Persians, and Timurids, then, leaving the Mamelukes for the AI to run.
Btw. Were you using the PAoE 1.00 or 1.01 setup?
Tsunami game is with Arabic culture for Persia.Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
True enough. The best thing they can do is lie low and kill Gujarat, while waiting for Babur to change the equation.
Yes, a Timurid/Persian/Mameluke war against the Ottomans early on would tend to leave the Ottomans suffering, I guess - as it should be
Probably best to play Ottomans, Persians, and Timurids, then, leaving the Mamelukes for the AI to run.
Btw. Were you using the PAoE 1.00 or 1.01 setup?
(when i was playing Timurids, i managed to kill Baluchistan. Well, Gujarat was allied to Delphi, and with 10k support limit and 2d monthly income you can only do so much )
And whopping 1% infra effiecency
Why not expand south into India as the Mughals instead of going for Persia's throat? Is it because of the hindu religion provinces, or because of a deep-seated urge to rid yourself of a potentially very dangerous threat?
I mean, if you take control of most of India as the Mughal Empire, your wealth is far beyond that of Persia.
Elaborate. Indicate one of the following
- Standard 1492 GC with Persia arising naturally around 1500 and granted arabic by editing
- PAoE v1.00 as I first posted it in this thread
- PAoE v1.01 as posted yesterday
You are wrong, Mamelukes have only one leader, Al-Kansur , but he is better than any Ottoman general, especailly when it´s taken into account that Turkish don´t start with any tech allowing effective fire phase
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full persia from the beginning. No Polish changes, so i guess 1.00.
Damn, i'm just so exhausted after that marathon i won't even go check which version is it
Originally posted by DarthMaur
Not till after 1504 at least-Timurids are pathetic.
Not to mention last two games with that setting Timurids allied to Persia
That´s the problem of relying on Mughals to balance Persians. They start pretty weak , and they need at least Persian goodwill to be able to expand. So we willl barely see a menace for Persia from Timurids in the early years.