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Johan

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Originally posted by Mowers
I actually have DEN on my orginal desktop version, but then I thought I would get howls from the masses if I posted that and deleted it.

Well... Russia and Poland will divide Lithuania and Hordes between them and be at odds with each other..

Sweden can focus on gobbling up Denmark if its AI... A Danish player means Sweden has less expansion possibilities, and Sweden can't put pressure on the English.. So England has its back free to mess with the French.. etc..
 
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Mowers

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Oh, I totally agree.

Although I doubt Poland will allow or join in an attack on Lithunia. They would be better off maintaining it until they can inherit it no?
 

Johan

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Originally posted by Mowers
Oh, I totally agree.

Although I doubt Poland will allow or join in an attack on Lithunia. They would be better off maintaining it until they can inherit it no?

Probably.. But the easternmost provinces are a drain on the Polish economy..


I see Russia and Poland as future enemies... Poland and Sweden should be natural allies...
 

metroncho

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If another player is possible perhaps Lithuania could be added, to strength the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, or Hungary. And when Persia appears he moves to Persia.
 

Johan

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if 13.. Hungary...


If there are 12 players, I can definitely see one or two being eliminated... Then perhaps a rule to let them take over "new" countries..


Persia, Holland, Pru-Brandenburg would definitely be nations that would need players..
 

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Hummm, yes, but we musn´t stress too much in the Ottomans.
Instead of Persia a human player in India (Mughals) could be a fine addition too, or China ( but Peter Ebessen this one could get too much of an advantage). Ah, splendid isolationism :)
 

metroncho

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Originally posted by Johan


If there are 12 players, I can definitely see one or two being eliminated... Then perhaps a rule to let them take over "new" countries..

Persia, Holland, Pru-Brandenburg would definitely be nations that would need players..


Yes, good idea. The game could become very very dynamic.
 
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Mowers

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I think a human Mughal player would be a bad thing. There would be no opponents and no effect on the Ottomans.

Persia was a key factor in the expansion and strategy of the Ottomans, the Mughals were not.

Persia is also likely to come into contact with the Russians at some point or another.

Introduction of Persia, Holland and PR-BRA would be key.
 

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Well, Mamelukes will be eliminated early.... probably Hungary as well if they are in.
 

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Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
China is too strong, really. In a 1492 setup, China can launch a credible attack on England around 1497-1500. :D

But the addition of Persia* and/or the Timurids, now that would be something. It sure would make Indian expansion by Europeans more chancy - unless they stayed on good terms with the local potentates, or brought a bigger army :)

And my manpower mod should, of course, be used :D


Hmmm. I think I will prepare a 1492 save game for 24 players using the manpower mod and forced creation of Persia, just to see what it looks like. If it looks nice, I will put it up for download.
China too strong? hmmm.....
***Swedish****agression*****must*****be*****stoppped*****:D

I personally think you slightly underestimated Asian manpower, but well:D
 

metroncho

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Humm, really, i think you are centering too much in the Ottomans, Mowers. Some opposition to easy expansion of Europeans in the Far East is not a bad idea.
I´m not saying Persia is not important, but Mughals can play a role too. It depends where we guess the menace to BoP comes from.
 

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Originally posted by Mowers
I think a human Mughal player would be a bad thing. There would be no opponents and no effect on the Ottomans.

Persia was a key factor in the expansion and strategy of the Ottomans, the Mughals were not.

Persia is also likely to come into contact with the Russians at some point or another.

Introduction of Persia, Holland and PR-BRA would be key.
Oh, Mughals are not for Ottomans, they are for India.

Persia is indeed the best country for Ottoman neighbour, as they were historically, anyway. And they have nice events, too:D
 

metroncho

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Originally posted by DarthMaur
Oh, Mughals are not for Ottomans, they are for India.

Persia is indeed the best country for Ottoman neighbour, as they were historically, anyway. And they have nice events, too:D


Hire English Advisors :D
 

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Well, apart from i agree with Katsyev (the underpowered Poland, Russia&Ottomans (you know, Johan, the unit prices in EU I were huge advantage, and there were no negative events), i am also big fan of AGC Indian setup-ie, no colonizable provinces.
IMO, its better from MP perspective, too, as having European religion and culture provinces ends with India split between Europeans in XVI century. If there would be no such provinces, and if Mughals would be played by Human, i doubt we would see more than few footholds gained there until XVIII century.

AGC also made most of Indonesia nation-states, and i am unsure if it would be better from MP perspective. This pretty much prevets Portugal from doing much there, but i think Holland could do it. And again, no Euro cultures/religions there is good thing IMO, same with harder coloniztion/conquest there (although it wouldn't be that much harder with small AI countries. Still, shipping troops from Europe with low naval tech is very costly endavour....)


The reason i suggested China is entirely from MGC4 Sweden:D Seriously, i wouldn't be so fast to add countries for that reason. For example, i think Ottomans deoesn't need beign stopped-i rarely see them gaining anything from Hungary (and i think it would be good thing), MGC 4 was again exemption in this case.


And, while we are at it, what do you guys think about turboannexation (ie:fall of governemnt)? Without BB wars in MP, it wasn't that bad, now it becomes the worst nightmare, allowing countries (especially Spain, which doesn't have any revolters in America), just to say "no" to every peace offer. France would probably want NOT to control any Spanish provinces in such case, 3BB is very high price.
 

Johan

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Originally posted by DarthMaur
And, while we are at it, what do you guys think about turboannexation (ie:fall of governemnt)? Without BB wars in MP, it wasn't that bad, now it becomes the worst nightmare, allowing countries (especially Spain, which doesn't have any revolters in America), just to say "no" to every peace offer. France would probably want NOT to control any Spanish provinces in such case, 3BB is very high price.

Easily fixed down to +2 for each !core...
 

metroncho

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Originally posted by DarthMaur

IMO, its better from MP perspective, too, as having European religion and culture provinces ends with India split between Europeans in XVI century. If there would be no such provinces, and if Mughals would be played by Human, i doubt we would see more than few footholds gained there until XVIII century.

AGC also made most of Indonesia nation-states, and i am unsure if it would be better from MP perspective. This pretty much prevets Portugal from doing much there, but i think Holland could do it. And again, no Euro cultures/religions there is good thing IMO, same with harder coloniztion/conquest there (although it wouldn't be that much harder with small AI countries. Still, shipping troops from Europe with low naval tech is very costly endavour....)


Moreover, deprived of territorial expànsion we could see a lot of trade wars in the Far East, where the Netherlands and England bright. As it should be.
 
M

Mowers

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maur, you now get BB for inheritance events.

If you are going to have the Mughals then you need some opposition for them, more than just the Persians.

Opposition to the Europeans in the far east should primarily come from one another. Who wants to play a country waiting the arrival of Europeans.

The Ottomans need opposition, indeed everyone needs opposition. A setup without everyone having some form of player opposition is the wrong setup.