nasty pope

[Spruce]

I chased Pope out of Italy - off to Mallorca.

eventually they got killed by Muslims and the papacy re-appeared in my realm (Rome) ... oh no !

shouldn't the event fire and ask - if the player controls Rome or if the guy controlling Rome has high intrigue or high diplomacy - if the player wants to restore Papacy - if not Papacy goes to "second" location - Avignon perhaps,

I mean Rome is a nice province with lots of money ! If I chase the Pope, he shouldn't fall out of the sky right inside my land

o - I ask forgiveness to Benedictus XVI

 

[Spruce]

I chased Pope out of Italy - off to Mallorca.

eventually they got killed by Muslims and the papacy re-appeared in my realm (Rome) ... oh no ! They were better off at Mallorca.

shouldn't the event fire and ask - if the player controls Rome or if the guy controlling Rome has high intrigue or high diplomacy - if the player wants to restore Papacy - if not Papacy goes to "second" location - Avignon perhaps. This should off course lead to excommunication trait.

I mean Rome is a nice province with lots of money ! If I chase the Pope, he shouldn't fall out of the sky right inside my land

o - I ask forgiveness to Benedictus XVI

perhaps an academic question cause you'll place yourself outside Christianity ... but hey if you can go to war with Papacy you should be able to chase the Pope to Avignon.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Afaik Pope does ask whether or not he can get Rome when he is homeless. Declining just is *very* bad.

 

[Caranorn]

perhaps an academic question cause you'll place yourself outside Christianity ... but hey if you can go to war with Papacy you should be able to chase the Pope to Avignon.

Not really, you'd only defend the position that temporal law stands above that of the church.

What is technically placing yourself outside christianity is abolishing bishoprics, but then technically we don't do that when we dissolve CK bishoprics, in fact what we do is remove their temporal privileges (remove the counties some of your precessors foolishly handed them, respectively the princely titles or peerages).

So assuming you are a christian ruler, the bishopric of Rome remains, even the pope might be in residence, but he will have no role beyond that of head of the church.

Even the pope at Avignon might be better represented as a diocesal bishop then a sovereign (which he obviously was not) at Avignon.

And yes, all of that is saying that the player should decide, that decision should of course be weighted by your religious law sets and any choice should have consequences (in the worst case excommunication, in the best a slight loss of piety and gain of prestige, middle ground including heretic traits, sceptical traits various ammounts of piety loss and prestige gain etc.). Oh an of course, if you give the pope land at Rome (or elsewhere after someone else has refused for Rome) then you should gain a lot of piety, either gain or lose a bit of prestige and immediatelly become papal controller (you might give him lands to rule, but he is still so deep in your debt you can control him for a generation).

 

[Spruce]

can we script an event - Rome is such a nice place - I want it for myself!

for sure - after the "Mallorca" popes returned, that was bogus.

perhaps the event fires "Papacy wants to return to Rome" and gives the option to let them - if you refuse you get excommunicated trait. If you accept you get a smacking pile of prestige and piety

And the restoration event can only fire for non-excommunicated guys controlling Rome. So once you refused, they don't try it again

Fair enough

Let's just keep them at Mallorca - nice exploit

 

[Ciçatrix]

I would like an event for restoring the papacy, but I'm not sure if it can be done, as the templar events seem outside the normal event structure, like childbirth, and so I presume is the restoration of the papacy.
So it would require something more than event scripting I think.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

can we script an event - Rome is such a nice place - I want it for myself!

for sure - after the "Mallorca" popes returned, that was bogus.

perhaps the event fires "Papacy wants to return to Rome" and gives the option to let them - if you refuse you get excommunicated trait. If you accept you get a smacking pile of prestige and piety

And the restoration event can only fire for non-excommunicated guys controlling Rome. So once you refused, they don't try it again

Fair enough

Let's just keep them at Mallorca - nice exploit

I have managed to script a variant of this. The only hitch is that you can't add a ruler trait from a province event and the papal recreation in Rome must be a province event, so now what will happen is the following (as of next beta patch):

Event #1 - a province event asking that you give Rome to the Pope to set up shop
Triggers:
- you own Rome
- the papacy doesn't exist
- Rome does not have province condition "heretic"
- Ruler is not excommunicated
- ruler is catholic
Action_a: Tell Pope to bugger sheep in Scotland (or words to that effect)
- gain a bit of prestige for your hard-line stance
- lose a ton of piety
- very high random chance that it will add province condition "heretic"
Action_B: Sure thing...here you go
- Pope sets up shop in Rome
- you get lots of piety, etc.

Event #2: a character event for being greedy
Triggers::
- you are a ruler
- you are catholic
- you are not excommunicated
- you own Rome
- Rome has province condition "heretic"
Action_A: I'm keeping it
- loss of some more piety
- gain trait excommunicated

Event #3: province event in case you (or an heir) want to change your mind first
Triggers:
- roughly the same as event #1 except that Rome has the province effect "heretic"
Action A: nope...not changing my mind
- lose a bit more piety
Action B: recant and give province to Pope
- province effect removed "heretic"
- Pope sets up shop
- you get a small amount of piety


It's not a perfect solution, but it should be pretty close to what you have in mind.

 

[NeilJT]

I have managed to script a variant of this. The only hitch is that you can't add a ruler trait from a province event and the papal recreation in Rome must be a province event, so now what will happen is the following (as of next beta patch):

...An Interesting Event...

Would it be possible to exclude Roma from heresy spread events, to ensure that one does not accidentally get event three before event one...

This of course is less of an issue if event one has a short MTTH reletive to event three. I assume that the Pope is excluded from heredy spread events to ensure that a ruler does not capture a heretical Roma already.

Sorry to point out a potential stupid condition as well, but it would be sensible to have Rome being { catholic and heretic } or { catholic and not heretic } for the triggers... lest you wrest a heretical rome from the Muslims, and are hence labeled as a bad person for not having given it back.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Yep. The triggers are actually more complex than I posted above and that is taken into consideration.