Nappy Average Tech levels @ 1820 starting @ 1453

[unmerged(66531)]

what was your Average Tech levels @ 1820 starting @ 1453 for all nations with Nappy?

i played as spain and by 1820 i had tons of vassals but only myself had the traditional spanish area in europe (had no other land). just at 1820 i got 60 land, 60 government and the rest of my tech levels were 20 something. the rest of the world had no more than 35 of anything and the average tech level counting all nations was 20 at best. most of the major nations had 20 to 25 usualy.

in my view this is seriously wrong but was intended. i am going to mod this if other people have the same problem. i mean, whats the point of having all these technologies if only a smart player can reach hich tech levels? i think this is a huge balance issue for player/AI combat. sure, the AI may have more troops but who cares when you have near double land tech? at that point land combat is not hard at all unless you are at war with more than one huge nation.

this also brings up a point. i did not see anything in the game involving revolutions. is it tech level based? if so then will there ever be non-player revolutions if the tech is so slow?

(edit):
from information other people have reported here is my opinions:

low technology levels is a normal thing now in NAx.

possible reasons:
1.more wars or wars have more effect on research
2.higher inflation of AI
3.lack of concern over stability of the AI (not reported by others yet)
4.some hard coded thing that slows down technology or a undiscovered moddable thing (player still gets lower than normal tech levels).
5. larger AI armies.

 

[ladybug]

you can get a revolution event at any time but for THE revolution you need gov to 35 or 45 cant remember which.

 

[Elmokki]

More investment in production / trade = more money to invest in other technology. In EU2 MP we used to only raise land to be able to easily conquer Aztecs/Incas with firearms, to get an edge over an enemy when you were planning to attack or to prevent an enemy getting an edge over you.

Also, with extensive trading you get loads of money compared to your size anyway. My 6 province Prussia in an 1.3 MP game where I played a leftover mini country for fun earned about 200d/month easily at early 17th century

 

[unmerged(80153)]

I haven't played NA yet, but in magna mundi for 1.3, every major AI power minted like crazy to keep up huge armies (I'm talking 2/3 of their monthly income into treasury), so they were always way behind in tech. I'm talking France and England still at level 14 when I'm at level 29 for everything. Only the minors were at or near my level in tech.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

I haven't played NA yet, but in magna mundi for 1.3, every major AI power minted like crazy to keep up huge armies (I'm talking 2/3 of their monthly income into treasury), so they were always way behind in tech. I'm talking France and England still at level 14 when I'm at level 29 for everything. Only the minors were at or near my level in tech.

that is wierd. did MM3 or MM4 change tech levels? i do not think i changed anything (until just now and have not tested it) in the past versions of my mod concerning tech levels and the AI always was close to me in tech levels (if not higher) even when i was gaining tech levels fast. this is the 1.3 version of my mod. but now with nappy, like i explained, i got a average of 35 or so ( if i did all evenly) by 1820 versus 50+ in all techs with 1.3 and my mod by 1790.

i know the bigger your country is the slower tech research is. so i know how to stay small or medium to get good tech levels. i also pay attention to the size of the AI nation when i look at thier tech levels. this relationships between size and research still seems to be true in Nappy but the overall tech rate is slower. I never once hit the 'this tech level is ahead of its time' notes for any tech level until about 1800 so i do not think this is due to the 'average year' for tech levels.

 

[unmerged(57561)]

Im playing a vanilla game as GB except limited QFTNW until second idea.

Its 1753
My tech levels are 42 in everything inflation is 0(I hit the tech slowdown 1720 or so)
Monthly income is 1447 375 from taxes, 476 from production, 650 or so from trade(I have monopolies in every cot and have booted everyone out of my 1600 and 2k cots)
I control the British Isles and have only conquered parts of India and Malaysia and took Aceh, Mak, Sulu, Bali, Brunei. No mainland european holdings. Colony wise everything is taken and I have large holdings in the Americas(Aztecs, East of Mississipi, Cuba, and a couple spice islands, and 3 prov in Argentina) Africa I have Cape and Karoo and the Indian ocean Islands, and East Asia I have all the Islands plus Aus and NZ. All provinces are Catholic.


closest competitor tech wise is Changtai that has an average tech of 16. France has had land tech 14 for 100 years and an income of 400 a month(highest) while most of the majors have 48% inflation.

Analysis:
Could the ai countries be getting massive bankruptcy events over and over?
I heard that tech is now adjusted for total income, could this be slowing the ai down alot especially since I control alot of trade income?

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

this also brings up a point. i did not see anything in the game involving revolutions. is it tech level based? if so then will there ever be non-player revolutions if the tech is so slow?

I think there's other triggers, too. Basically, if you're in a situation similar to France in the later (circa 1780s) starts, you'll get the Revolution. I don't know what all the triggers are, though.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

well it is kind of funy. i load up france at 1800 and it has 51 tech levels in everything (53 with my religion changes) and most europeans have near that. But if you play from 1453, from what i have seen you are lucky to get to a average of 40 in everything by 1800.

i am going to test my mod with reducing tech cost for all religions by around 30% on average. pagans and japan will be 50% reduction (pagans suck in tech and japan is in civil war and in its own religion). confusism (ming) will be only 10% reduction. who else is confusism? yes i know i dont knwo how to spell it lol.

if more people confirm the slower tech rates in Nappy then i will keep some kind of tech cost reduction in my mod.

 

[unmerged(80153)]

that is wierd. did MM3 or MM4 change tech levels? i do not think i changed anything (until just now and have not tested it) in the past versions of my mod concerning tech levels and the AI always was close to me in tech levels (if not higher) even when i was gaining tech levels fast. this is the 1.3 version of my mod. but now with nappy, like i explained, i got a average of 35 or so ( if i did all evenly) by 1820 versus 50+ in all techs with 1.3 and my mod by 1790.

i know the bigger your country is the slower tech research is. so i know how to stay small or medium to get good tech levels. i also pay attention to the size of the AI nation when i look at thier tech levels. this relationships between size and research still seems to be true in Nappy but the overall tech rate is slower. I never once hit the 'this tech level is ahead of its time' notes for any tech level until about 1800 so i do not think this is due to the 'average year' for tech levels.

I don't think it had to do with MM; I've seen similar issues in vanilla. Basically France, Spain, and Portugal, who were the only Latin majors other than me in the game each spent probably half the game at war (often with me). And when the AI is at war, it creates huge armies and goes at full mint to support them. And since I was England, the AIs just had huge armies sitting around in their homelands being maintained and doing nothing for half the game.

So I think it depends on how long the major AIs are at war - so it wouldn't happen every game. I don't know if NA made the problem worse or not.

Anyway, this is just a thought of one thing that might be contributing.

 

[ladybug]

For the actual revolution to fire you need to be aristocracy, serfdom and centralization - 2 (2 to the left) and a government type of absolute monarchy, enlightened despotism, bureaucratic despotism or republican dictatorship. That event can fire at any time and starts something like the peasants war or times of trouble.

Once that event has fired if your capital is in europe you have 10 of more citys with a government tech of 45 and no revolution target will fire the full revolution event that makes you the revolutionary government.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

I don't think it had to do with MM; I've seen similar issues in vanilla. Basically France, Spain, and Portugal, who were the only Latin majors other than me in the game each spent probably half the game at war (often with me). And when the AI is at war, it creates huge armies and goes at full mint to support them. And since I was England, the AIs just had huge armies sitting around in their homelands being maintained and doing nothing for half the game.

So I think it depends on how long the major AIs are at war - so it wouldn't happen every game. I don't know if NA made the problem worse or not.

Anyway, this is just a thought of one thing that might be contributing.

i suppose this could explain it somewhat but what are the odds that on my first complete game of Nappy this situation occurred like it did because of wars? i know Nappy hasnt been out long but every other game i can think of before Nappy, the tech levels were never this bad. also, wouldnt some latin nations (minors) still reach normal tech levels rising above the majors?

 

[unmerged(66531)]

For the actual revolution to fire you need to be aristocracy, serfdom and centralization - 2 (2 to the left) and a government type of absolute monarchy, enlightened despotism, bureaucratic despotism or republican dictatorship. That event can fire at any time and starts something like the peasants war or times of trouble.

Once that event has fired if your capital is in europe you have 10 of more citys with a government tech of 45 and no revolution target will fire the full revolution event that makes you the revolutionary government.

hmm, does the revolution target get technology benefits? if so, then this may explain why Nappy was nerfed (if it was).

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

if more people confirm the slower tech rates in Nappy then i will keep some kind of tech cost reduction in my mod.

Tech costs in NA scale with year since 1453 rather than merely having their cost before dp-sliders and techgroup determined solely by the interval in years between the current and the next techlevel.

 

[Van Diemen]

Started my NA game in 1453 and have progressed up to 1706 so far. Most AI nations are still under tech 12, while they used to be above tech 18 to even 21 by 1700. I believe that AI minting management is the key to this problem, because most (even wealthy) nations have inflation above 30%! Even France and Burgundy (the two most powerfull and richest nations in my game) have above 40% inflation. No wonder they need decades to advance even a single tech level, though I find myself (Medium nation, second best income, 16% inflation) in a difficult position to advance also. I only have land tech lvl 18 by 1706 and that is the highest land tech lvl in the entire world in 1706! Another thing that I spotted is that when you choose historical advisors in the game, most nations will not even have an advisor, there are too few of them. Small countries like Utrecht, Geldre and Friesland, who belong to a seperate advisor area (like the low countries, France, Italy, Germany etc) have access to many 4+ advisors. This is also a part of the problem, because it prevents many small nations (especially the German States) early on to advance by the use of advisors.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

Started my NA game in 1453 and have progressed up to 1706 so far. Most AI nations are still under tech 12, while they used to be above tech 18 to even 21 by 1700.

just loaded my game @ 1703 and the average tech was around 12 or less also. the highest tech level was 21 but most of the top nations only had 14 or 15. so this sounds very much like your situation.

I believe that AI minting management is the key to this problem, because most (even wealthy) nations have inflation above 30%! Even France and Burgundy (the two most powerfull and richest nations in my game) have above 40% inflation. No wonder they need decades to advance even a single tech level, though I find myself (Medium nation, second best income, 16% inflation) in a difficult position to advance also. I only have land tech lvl 18 by 1706 and that is the highest land tech lvl in the entire world in 1706!

yes, i also noticed that AI inflation on average (with NAx) is more than it was in EU3 1.3 so you may be right. But this is not the whole situation. i had NO inflation for at least half of the game and my stability was easy to keep high due to the art tech buildings i built for stability and the temples. normaly i would have had 47 to 50+ in all techs at 1790 but in NAx i had about a 35 average.

Another thing that I spotted is that when you choose historical advisors in the game, most nations will not even have an advisor, there are too few of them. Small countries like Utrecht, Geldre and Friesland, who belong to a seperate advisor area (like the low countries, France, Italy, Germany etc) have access to many 4+ advisors. This is also a part of the problem, because it prevents many small nations (especially the German States) early on to advance by the use of advisors.

this is a good point. i played with normal settings so the advisors were just like EU3 1.3. this may be why my tech levels were slightly higher than yours.

at any rate, it seems people are confirming my fears that Nappy has Nerfed Tech levels. it also seems that this will be a normaly occuring thing in a game (low tech levels). i see no point in having all of the fancy high end technology benefits in a game if it can never be reached so thats why i will change it. i will start testing this week.

 

[PSJK]

I also confirm that technology seems to advance way too slowly on NA.

If this would've been the case in real life, propably first tank would be somewhere 30th century

 

[unmerged(66531)]

I also confirm that technology seems to advance way too slowly on NA.

If this would've been the case in real life, propably first tank would be somewhere 30th century

:rofl: seems that way.

 

[SirGrotius]

I'm also experiencing low tech levels. In my current game I don't know if anyone will break 20 at 1700.

 

[unmerged(66531)]

I'm also experiencing low tech levels. In my current game I don't know if anyone will break 20 at 1700.

thank you for confirming this

it is starting to look like low tech levels is going to be a 'normal' thing now in NAx games.

 

[unmerged(37275)]

Mid 1700 and apart from the odd one province minor, most nations are not above 12 in most techs. I thought the reason may be because my game is now made up of blobs. There is a small scattering of one or a couple of province nations, but really the map is made up of about 6 huge powers (Ming, Castile, Lithiuania, me (morea), France, Austria) with Britain, Dehli, Mamalks, Aragon and the papal states having smaller but still substatial holdings.The two province minor Genoa leads the world with techs in the 20s. I therefore assumed that as the world is made up of superpowers, they would have massive research costs and confound things more by not passing on much of a neigbour advantage to each other (and myself). Though they are fairly homogenous as far as relegion goes (busy converting I guess).

Though all of these large nations have huge levels of inflation (mine is 50%, and the others are not far behind). I also find that while I have reasonable armys, whenever war breaks out I get hit by a massive wave of troops from these superpowers that I can only match by massive mercinary recruitment. If these are standing troops then I guess (not knowing to much about EU3 mechanism, as they may get 'free troops' or something) the AI would have to mint to maintain them (hence the huge inflation they have). Also, they seem to be out converting, which may mean they are minting to cover the costs.