Napoleons generals and generals of the Napoleonic era

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Feb 23, 2002
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So, who is your favorite General, and why?:)


Mine is Jean Lannes, as he was brave, a good tactician, and didn't care about politics. And, he was loyal to Napoleon. Died at Wagram, after being hit by a cannon bullet. Had to amputate his leg, but died of fever.


And, a good site about Napoleon/the Napoleonic era: Napoleonguide
 

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Being a Brit, I'd have to stick to my guns and go for Wellington.

The only one to have defeated practically all of Napoleon's generals in Spain. Defeated the man himself (just barely).

As for Napoleon's generals, I'm not sure. I read a biography on Napoleon and the author was not too kind to Napoleon's subordinates, saying that they lacked initiative when on their own (he points to Spain at this point), but were excellent with their master.
grouchy doesn't give a good impression either, judging by his actions at waterloo. Does anyone know if he had any distinguished service before waterloo?
 

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I'm partial, but I kind of like Bernadotte. He managed to keep the kingdom he got from the wars. And he managed to squeeze out the biggest territorial gains of all for the one of the smallest and weakest allies.

Otherwise, I tend to like Ney as well.
 

Alexandru H.

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"Death to Kings" Bernadotte? Nice..... I admit, a very good Swedish king, but not a very excellent marshal (I can't remember a battle in the Napoleonic era where he performed above average and in the Prussian campaign "made everything in his power" to get Davout killed)...

My favourite is Davout who, in militariy terms, can be compared with Napoleon.At Auerstadt he showed one of the greatest military achivements of the era.
 

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Bernadotte isn't generally disliked for being a bad general (as far as I can gather, he was average)...

So much that he was such an unreliable, seditious and blatantly selfish individual who looked after his own interests more then any silly ideals.

He would have performed well in the EUII multiplayer community. :)
 

Alexandru H.

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Damocles said:
So much that he was such an unreliable, seditious and blatantly selfish individual who looked after his own interests more then any silly ideals.

Perfect qualities for a general on the battlefield :rolleyes:

Damocles said:
He would have performed well in the EUII multiplayer community.

After watching an epic battle involving several people (the infamous Byng clash), I cannot but agree....
 

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Alexandru H. said:
Perfect qualities for a general on the battlefield :rolleyes:

Heh. Well, my point was that when he actually made it to a battle, he performed averagely. But he seemed to have a sixth sense for deliberately avoiding battle, when his presence was most needed...Even doing the opposite of specific orders from Napoleon.

Still, Sweden did pretty well. Napoleon got rid of his worst general and Sweden got their best king!
:)
 

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Damocles said:
Heh. Well, my point was that when he actually made it to a battle, he performed averagely. But he seemed to have a sixth sense for deliberately avoiding battle, when his presence was most needed...Even doing the opposite of specific orders from Napoleon.

Agreed... :)

Among the best marshals were Ney, Berthier, Augereau, Messena, Murat, Lannes...
 
Feb 23, 2002
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What about de Coulaincourt? AFAIK he wasn't a big marshal and stuff, but he was loyal to Nappy... anyone know anything 'bout him?
I know he was the one that took Louis XVI's cousin, which was a possible danger... not that capturing him was any hard;):p
 
Dec 28, 2002
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Welington profited a great deal from the unwillingness of the French marshalls to cooperate in Spain. As for Waterloo, he deserved to loose that battle, becouse he allowed it. Napoleon should have been beaten at Quatre Bras two days before, and it wouldn't have needed French incapability to win. He was however a very good tactican.
Ney failed to do combined arms assault, and the one he did almost knock out the English, and the Prussians saved him (or better deleyed the main attack of the guard) Grouchy on the other hand was inexperinced as corps commander, for he should have marched to the battle...

As for Davout, the campaign for Belgium was just the start, and France needed a fresh army, as the Russians, Austrians and Spanish were marching toward France as well.
 

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Mormegil said:
What about de Coulaincourt? AFAIK he wasn't a big marshal and stuff, but he was loyal to Nappy... anyone know anything 'bout him?
I know he was the one that took Louis XVI's cousin, which was a possible danger... not that capturing him was any hard;):p


He was just a diplomat but one that did not resort to Tallyerand excuses. He had in fact a noble's attitude serving a mere soldier from Corsica, while Tallyerand, while noble, was just a Machiavelian disciple...
 

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Damocles said:
The Iron Marshal, Davout.


just like you. Davout was the best marshall of napoleon. I even think he was a better tactician than nappy. Auerstedt is a great battle, and i don't think any other marshall could have win.
 

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Damocles said:
Napoleon never gave Davout half the credit he deserved.


True, Napoleon was jealous of Davout.
In auestredt, Davout was alone with 28 000 french, against 70 000 prussians. And he won!!!! The prussians flee. Had he loose, and nappy would have loose Iena.
During this time, bernadotte, always eager to avoid a fight, was between nappy and davout and didn't help any of them.

about Suchet, Napoleon didn't said he was his best general, he said : "Suchet était quelqu'un chez qui le caractère et l'esprit s'étaient accrus à surprendre... Si j'avais eu Suchet à la place de Grouchy, je n'aurais pas perdu Waterloo."
(approximative translation due to bad english... damn grammar!) "Suchet was someone in whom fortitude and wits grew surprinsingly... If Suchet was in waterloo instead of Grouchy, I wouldn't have loose."


But who is the only undefeated marshall of Napoleon, not Suchet, not Lannes, not Bernadotte :)rolleyes: ), but Davout!
 

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Agreed again. No question about it. Davout was a great marshal and more of all, perfectly capable of leading an army, and not just answering some orders. Murat, for example, was the perfect subordinate, as seen by his "italian adventures" when his command proved disastrous.

Suvorov and Napoleon? I would bet on Napoleon, but with a live Suvorov, Austerlitz may have not been so clearly won by the french...
 
Feb 23, 2002
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Alexandru H. said:
Suvorov and Napoleon? I would bet on Napoleon, but with a live Suvorov, Austerlitz may have not been so clearly won by the french...

Agree. I think most, if not all generals at that time would've gone into that trap. Napoleon was a genius, shouldn't forget to give him credit either:)

Such as when he attacked Europe, (1804-5 or during that times) he went back to Paris, and went to theaters, and let him be seen, so that no one would believe his army was marching at a revoluzionized speed towards Strasbourg. That way his army suddenly shoved up close to the austrians. Not only that, he brought his wife with him (at the start), so that the soldiers would think that they would soon come home again, boosting their moral.

These things are/can be just as important as tactics in a battle, maybe even more.
 
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Napoleon would have won Jena regardless of Auerstadt, but what would have happend then is interesting, it is unlikely the complete route of the Prussian army would have happend, and that the fortress would have been given us so easily.

One of my favourite (my far not the best) was Gourion Saint Cry, one of the more colorful marshals:
On August 15, the Emperor's fête day, the 2nd army corps arrived, in very low spirits, at Polotsk, where we found the 6th corps, formed by two fine Bavarian divisions, under General Wrede, and commanded in chief by a French general, Gourion Saint-Cyr. The Emperor had sent this reinforcement of 8,000 to 10,000 men to Marshal Oudinot, who would have received it with more satisfaction if he had not dreaded the influence of its leader. Saint-Cyr was, indeed, one of the most able soldiers in Europe; a contemporary and rival of Moreau, Hoche, Kleber, and Desaix, he had commanded successfully a wing of the Army of the Rhine at a time when Oudinot was colonel, or at most major-general. I never knew anyone handle troops in battle better than Saint-Cyr. He was the son of a small landowner at Toul, and had studied for a civil engineer; but, disliking this profession, he became an actor in Paris, and it was he who created the famous part of Robert, the brigand chief, at the Théátre de la Cité. The revolution of 1789 found him in this position; he entered a volunteer battalion, showed talent and much courage, and very quickly rose to the rank of lieutenant-general, and distinguished himself by many successes. He was of tall stature, but looked more like a professor than a soldier, which may perhaps be ascribed to the habit which, like the other generals of the Army of the Rhine, he had acquired of wearing neither uniform nor epaulettes, but a plain blue overcoat. It was impossible to find a calmer man; the greatest danger, disappointments, successes, defeats, were alike unable to move him. In presence of every sort of contingency he was like ice. It may be easily understood of what advantage such a character, backed by a taste for study and meditation, was to a general officer. But Saint-Cyr had serious faults as well: he was jealous of his colleagues, and was often seen to keep his troops inactive when other divisions were being shattered close to him. Then he would advance, and, profiting by the enemy's weariness, would beat them, seeming thus to have the sole credit of the victory. Further, if he was among the commanders who were best able to handle their troops on the field, he was undoubtedly the one who took least thought for their welfare. He never inquired if his soldiers had food, clothing, or boots, or if their arms were in good condition. He never held a review, never visited the hospitals, did not even ask if there were any. His view was that the colonels ought to see to all that. In a word, he expected that his regiment should be brought into the field all ready to fight, without troubling himself about the means to keep them in good condition. This method of procedure had done Saint-Cyr much harm, and wherever he had served, his troops, while doing justice to his military talents, had disliked him. His colleagues all dreaded having to act with him,, and the different successive Governments of France had only employed him from necessity. It was the same with the Emperor; and such was his antipathy for Saint-Cyr that he did not include him in his first creation of marshals, although he had a better record and much greater talent than the majority of those to whom Napoleon gave the baton. Such was the man who had just been placed under Oudinot's command, much to his regret, for he knew that he would be put in the shade by Saint-Cyr's superior ability.