Jinnai said:But yes,HRE is a excellent, albeit not perfect comparison (because no comparison to any country is perfect).
Okay, why and how do you compare Japan to the HRE?
Jinnai said:But yes,HRE is a excellent, albeit not perfect comparison (because no comparison to any country is perfect).
Jinnai said:former. You normally ad the 'not' if you disagree with the premise of the question.
I've never heard anyone use the word empire about Trabzon before. But just to make matters clear. I define empire as a center capable of laying down the laws governing interaction amongst states within its system. This empire usually has a different degree of control over the various states within the system. Ranging from direct control over dominion to hegemony.Norrefeldt said:Well, so was Trabzon...
Sute]{h said:I've never heard anyone use the word empire about Trabzon before. But just to make matters clear. I define empire as a center capable of laying down the laws governing interaction amongst states within its system. This empire usually has a different degree of control over the various states within the system. Ranging from direct control over dominion to hegemony.
An Empire that had absolutely no effect on the flow of time in general until World War 2.Sute]{h said:Not at all. Japan wasn't a state, it was an empire.
So all it takes for a country to be a democracy would be that they call themselves that? I don't think so. For instance the United Kingdom had an empire, but never an emperor. Granted Victoria was empress of India, but not empress of the entire British empire. Rome was an empire before the first emperor.Mad King James said:I hate to break it to you, but all it takes to be an empire is to be ruled by somebody calling himself the "emperor"
Well perhaps because you fail to see that the most important role of the empire isn't to affect other systems of states, but rather to maintain as best possible peace within its own system of states.Pellucid said:An Empire that had absolutely no effect on the flow of time in general until World War 2.
then both hre and japan failed miserablySute]{h said:Well perhaps because you fail to see that the most important role of the empire isn't to affect other systems of states, but rather to maintain as best possible peace within its own system of states.
Alas, then I'd say that neither HRE nor Japan were empires. The empires like Rome or Britain are best characterized by the fact that they could excert power on places beyond their national/cultural area. Rome's center was Italy, yet it ruled over the entire mediterranean. Britain's center was England, yet it had it's possessions on every of the continents. Would the Holy Roman Empire (post 1419) or Japan qualify as such? Rather not. I'd say both were loose federations of states with a largely theoretic central authority, limited to their cultural/lingual/national circle, same as France of 12th century or Russia of 13th-15th centuries.Sute]{h said:So all it takes for a country to be a democracy would be that they call themselves that? I don't think so. For instance the United Kingdom had an empire, but never an emperor. Granted Victoria was empress of India, but not empress of the entire British empire. Rome was an empire before the first emperor.
almoravid said:That said, I think the final proposal of 15 provinces for all of Japan can be reluctantly accepted - if we need tags, I'd rather cut some african/arabian desert tribes.
I just don't want to see 20 tags sunk into a country that basically has no effect on the game is all. Most European countries had at least a little bit of a ripple effect...Japan invaded one miniscule country once, and that was almost the entirity of their interference in the world until World War I. The game wouldn't change much if Japan was permanent terra incognita. I'm not saying that they should be, but if the decision comes down to representing a country like, say, Ghazi, versus representing the Tokugawa era contenders properly, preference should go to Ghazi, since it had SLIGHTLY more effect on the world as a whole than the Takeda clan did.Mad King James said:I think a lot of you are asking a rather impossible thing of Japan, to be a world-affecting power in EU2 to justify its existance.
However I can count the number of states that actually WERE world affecting powers on the fingers of ONE HAND.
Let's see... UK, France, Spain, Netherlands and Portugal. Done.
So already we're kind of screwing over the region.Mad King James said:Ghazi wasn't a country, it's an amalgamation of 6 (!) countries: Tekke, Aydin, Germiyan, Hamid, Mentese and Saruhan
Pellucid said:So already we're kind of screwing over the region.
8+NIP, as you understand. I'm not going to go on a killing spree if it ends up being 9+NIP, either. My point is simply that from a gameplay perspective, pretty massive diminishing returns kick in at that level of tags. From a perspective of perfectly faithful historical simulation, many more tags would be useful, but that should not be our goal, I think.YodaMaster said:To doktarr: 8 tags + NIP, as I understand, or 8 tags including NIP?