MyMAP ( 400 new provinces)

[Van der Gent]

I'd say that most of MyMap's cultures are based on maps from the 20th century. :S Doesn't that make it awfully a-historical?

 

[Mad King James]

I'd say that most of MyMap's cultures are based on maps from the 20th century. :S Doesn't that make it awfully a-historical?

What cultural maps were made in the 15th century?

 

[rybka]

What cultural maps were made in the 15th century?

none, and thats why all this "culture" idea is completely artificial. however i understand it was used on mymap to balance the game, but we all the time have this discussions about cultures and they will never stop ...
is there really no other way to balance the game and whats more has anyone ever tried to use only 1 culture in europe and see what were the results?

 

[Mad King James]

I actually thought of basing it instead on what kingdom the people of that province consider themselves to belong to, but ended up with roughly the same results and just as much ambiguity and grey areas, only different ones.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

what setup do you want ??, that is what province get what culture, what neighbours get what cultures, who gets what cores etc etc. this is what I meant, by what setup you want

Okay, I will have to go from memory of the linguistic map while I type because I am on my laptop and it is a pain to shuffle from one window to the other and keep a train of thought going...

Poitou, Saintonge, Aquitane. Gascogne, Foix, Haute and Bas Languedoc, Limousin, Auvergne, Lyonnais, Bresse, Dauphine Savoie, Provence, and venaissin should all likely be the French Occitan provinces and the present Iberian Catalan ones added to them would form the entirety of the Occitan world.

As to who has what cultures? Savoie would have Occitan and not French, France would GET Occitan eventually, Province would have it as would Lorraine after the inheritance event.

And I am not sure on cores yet, beyond the French having cores on the area and I could see Aragon and therefore Spain having them on certain provinces but the particulars of the history escape me at the moment. Oh I almost forgot about England having cores on the Aquitane but they lose those easily enough.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

Indeed, division of German on ethnic-linguistic “cultures” is not the best idea, but the entire “culture” concept in EUII is absolutely pointless thing through many mentioned historical reasons. However, instead of removing it entirely, we made it to serve for the important balance issue, executing one of the sides of “legitimacy”: not the legal systems legitimacy as it was proposed in AGCEEP, but as the Crown legitimacy. It is not s simple claims or cores, but their “Propria” territories.


First of all, they were Bavarians, Swabs, Hanoverians, Saxonians etc and only then “Germans”. But I do not think that the peasants or burghers during Early Modern era really thought themselves as part of any one big ethnic group except being the subjects of the certain Prince or citizens of a free city (maximum as the natives of the quite virtual “Empire”).


“Nationalism” does not represent this aspect perfectly enough unfortunately. “Culture” (aka legitimacy) system is much more effective in this case.

legitimacy is handled by cores. Cores are property that the party has some legal claim to or upon. I suppose how the AGCEEP is presently using culture could be made workable but it would require some serious overhauls of events! For instance, Bayreuth and Brandenburg, let us say for the sake of example that the Elector inherited Bayreuth due to extinction of the Sigmaringien line of the family. They would have full legal title and claim to the property but as it is set up presently would not be seen as the legitimate rulers. Or using a historic example: In the case of the Bavarian succession of 1777, the house of Palatinate-Neuberg takes possession of the Duchy of Bavaria (we will ignore the identical cultural situation when they inherited the Pfalz earlier), at present the game sees them as fully legitimate rulers of the are vis a vis culture.

However, there is a small problem here; the family were the Dukes of Julich-Berg, and would or should be seen as Low German or Middle German, probably Low since they preferred to rule from Berg. Yet, they take no "culture" hit for taking possession of the Upper German territories but do take one for ruling the Low German ones.

As it is set up, Brandenburg will be seen as the "legitimate" ruler of all the Low German areas, which history shows they were not. And Bavaria, Austria or any other Upper German state with the oomph to pull it off would be seen as the rightful rulers of the whole of the Upper German area.

Does that really come across as a good way to balance things out? Or am I the only one around here that thinks that it is daft?

 

[unmerged(36449)]

I am not sure that the fact that these lands were part of Cologne diocese should be a reason to give it cores: in other case Cologne should have cores on all its diocese lands, including those non-ecclesiastical possessions of the Imperial princes.

What better reason to have cores on a province then you historically OWNED it?

Like I said though it would become problematic.

 

[Herr Doctor]

legitimacy is handled by cores. Cores are property that the party has some legal claim to or upon. I suppose how the AGCEEP is presently using culture could be made workable but it would require some serious overhauls of events! For instance, Bayreuth and Brandenburg, let us say for the sake of example that the Elector inherited Bayreuth due to extinction of the Sigmaringien line of the family. They would have full legal title and claim to the property but as it is set up presently would not be seen as the legitimate rulers. Or using a historic example: In the case of the Bavarian succession of 1777, the house of Palatinate-Neuberg takes possession of the Duchy of Bavaria (we will ignore the identical cultural situation when they inherited the Pfalz earlier), at present the game sees them as fully legitimate rulers of the are vis a vis culture.

However, there is a small problem here; the family were the Dukes of Julich-Berg, and would or should be seen as Low German or Middle German, probably Low since they preferred to rule from Berg. Yet, they take no "culture" hit for taking possession of the Upper German territories but do take one for ruling the Low German ones.

As it is set up, Brandenburg will be seen as the "legitimate" ruler of all the Low German areas, which history shows they were not. And Bavaria, Austria or any other Upper German state with the oomph to pull it off would be seen as the rightful rulers of the whole of the Upper German area.

Does that really come across as a good way to balance things out? Or am I the only one around here that thinks that it is daft?

The legitimacy as culture is the other thing, which could not be represented with cores properly which only gives temporary RR and hit on MP. These penalties is ridiculous if to compare them with the ones given by the unhistorical “ethnic” setup – a complete nonsense for the EUII time frame as it was already pointed.

As to your succession examples: yes, it is true that these dynasties should also probably receive those cultures in-game, because they were naturally a legitimate heirs here, and not the usurpers/conquerors as it often happens in EUII.

Of course three-“cultures” setup is not enough for Germany, and if we would have more culture tags we would perhaps revise it more detailed. But all in all it is much better than the sole “German” culture which allows Brunswick to conquer Austria and to rule it (after 30 years when cores “nationalism” ends) without many troubles. So, yes, it adds balance, far form ideal, but much better than allowing completely fantasy world.

 

[Herr Doctor]

Okay, I will have to go from memory of the linguistic map while I type because I am on my laptop and it is a pain to shuffle from one window to the other and keep a train of thought going...

Poitou, Saintonge, Aquitane. Gascogne, Foix, Haute and Bas Languedoc, Limousin, Auvergne, Lyonnais, Bresse, Dauphine Savoie, Provence, and venaissin should all likely be the French Occitan provinces and the present Iberian Catalan ones added to them would form the entirety of the Occitan world.

As to who has what cultures? Savoie would have Occitan and not French, France would GET Occitan eventually, Province would have it as would Lorraine after the inheritance event.

And I am not sure on cores yet, beyond the French having cores on the area and I could see Aragon and therefore Spain having them on certain provinces but the particulars of the history escape me at the moment. Oh I almost forgot about England having cores on the Aquitane but they lose those easily enough.

Regarding your ideas about a single Occitan world in EUII timeframe: I asked Fodoron to address the Iberian (Spanish) community of these boards to investigate the matter. So, what he said:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6079275#post6079275
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269711

I personally do not think the language is a good idea to give them both one in-game culture.

 

[Herr Doctor]

What better reason to have cores on a province then you historically OWNED it?

Like I said though it would become problematic.

It did not own them. It had only ecclesiastic authority over it (after 1430s). It was owned by Burgundy during this time. In addition I do not want to provoke wars between Burgundy and Cologne.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185983&page=82&pp=10

 

[Toio]

Okay, I will have to go from memory of the linguistic map while I type because I am on my laptop and it is a pain to shuffle from one window to the other and keep a train of thought going...

Poitou, Saintonge, Aquitane. Gascogne, Foix, Haute and Bas Languedoc, Limousin, Auvergne, Lyonnais, Bresse, Dauphine Savoie, Provence, and venaissin should all likely be the French Occitan provinces and the present Iberian Catalan ones added to them would form the entirety of the Occitan world.

As to who has what cultures? Savoie would have Occitan and not French, France would GET Occitan eventually, Province would have it as would Lorraine after the inheritance event.

And I am not sure on cores yet, beyond the French having cores on the area and I could see Aragon and therefore Spain having them on certain provinces but the particulars of the history escape me at the moment. Oh I almost forgot about England having cores on the Aquitane but they lose those easily enough.

IRC , savoy had a pure French language and then "decided" to introduce Italian in the early 17th century to gain a "royal" foothold in Italy. It now has its own dictionary of French-savoy. I do not see where the occitan came in.

Lorraine ??

 

[unmerged(36449)]

IRC , savoy had a pure French language and then "decided" to introduce Italian in the early 17th century to gain a "royal" foothold in Italy. It now has its own dictionary of French-savoy. I do not see where the occitan came in.

Lorraine ??

Savoy spoke Provencal a dialect of Occitan, not French which is a linguistically different language. And as to Lorraine? When the Angevin possessions get united early in the game it is through them that it happens, so they inherit Provence and the claim on Naples etc.

 

[unmerged(40707)]

A link to help you (but you have to speak French at least ) and you can use reponse1.htm and reponse2.htm too.

 

[Kelvin]

If I may interrupt, I'd like to share some observations with you...


Bankruptcies are a VERY common thing, I've seen at least 20 of them in the first 200 years, and not for one country, but for a variety of them (most of them European, though).

Tuscany is a warmonger, even on the lowest aggresion setting.

Mecklenburg HATES England. In the 15 or so years since they revolted from Denmark and despite being my vassal (BRA), they've DOWed England as regulary as a clock, every 5 years (until I annexed them).

Byzantium AI is pathetic. No matter how many troops it has, in wars it simply piles them in one place and loses them to the attrition. The naval AI is equally bad, it keeps everything in one fleet, IN PORT

If Byzantium survives for a century or so, Ottomans are pathetic, they're not capable of even conquering BYZ.

Venice is an avid colonizer, I've seen them in the Carribean quite often, ad last nigt I've evn seen them in the Amazon basin.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

A link to help you (but you have to speak French at least ) and you can use reponse1.htm and reponse2.htm too.

Thanks that was a great link.

Gotta confess.. three years of French in school, at the time I could think in it, dream in it, even had a passably decent accent. Now after 25 years?

I couldn't order a ham sandwich or find a bathroom if I had to speak it, but I can still get the gist at least reading it as long as the verbs are pretty simple.

 

[unmerged(36449)]

If I may interrupt, I'd like to share some observations with you...


Bankruptcies are a VERY common thing, I've seen at least 20 of them in the first 200 years, and not for one country, but for a variety of them (most of them European, though).

Tuscany is a warmonger, even on the lowest aggresion setting.

Mecklenburg HATES England. In the 15 or so years since they revolted from Denmark and despite being my vassal (BRA), they've DOWed England as regulary as a clock, every 5 years (until I annexed them).

Byzantium AI is pathetic. No matter how many troops it has, in wars it simply piles them in one place and loses them to the attrition. The naval AI is equally bad, it keeps everything in one fleet, IN PORT

If Byzantium survives for a century or so, Ottomans are pathetic, they're not capable of even conquering BYZ.

Venice is an avid colonizer, I've seen them in the Carribean quite often, ad last nigt I've evn seen them in the Amazon basin.

Got to agree on the Venice part..OH LORDY the Lesser Antiles are almost entirely Venetian I think England has only 2 colonies left in the area. Venice is also in Madagascar, the American Southeast, and India.

And Spain has done a pretty ugly job in the last couple of games that I have played of dealing with Mexico...The first game they never, nor did any other European power, conquer the Aztecs or the Maya. The Zapotecs ended up uniting the whole area, converted to Protestant..it was very strange, but kind of cool.

The game I am playing now, I gave Spain until 1585 and they still had not even made a real attempt at Mexico, but had managed to eat the whole Inca empire in a single gulp; so I decided I would see what I could do as Bavaria (got Antwerp in a peace deal) to conquer them. It's 1680 and I have the whole of Mexico under Bavarian control.

 

[Toio]

If I may interrupt, I'd like to share some observations with you...


Bankruptcies are a VERY common thing, I've seen at least 20 of them in the first 200 years, and not for one country, but for a variety of them (most of them European, though).

Tuscany is a warmonger, even on the lowest aggresion setting.

Mecklenburg HATES England. In the 15 or so years since they revolted from Denmark and despite being my vassal (BRA), they've DOWed England as regulary as a clock, every 5 years (until I annexed them).

Byzantium AI is pathetic. No matter how many troops it has, in wars it simply piles them in one place and loses them to the attrition. The naval AI is equally bad, it keeps everything in one fleet, IN PORT

If Byzantium survives for a century or so, Ottomans are pathetic, they're not capable of even conquering BYZ.

Venice is an avid colonizer, I've seen them in the Carribean quite often, ad last nigt I've evn seen them in the Amazon basin.

Bankrupcies occur due to the AI default slider is zero for treasury.

on Venice, its because they have very high naval for centuries that they are given a "default" explorer by the engine, maybe u need to change some Venetian events and make them move more to LAND, probably start about 1510 or so

 

[Toio]

Got to agree on the Venice part..OH LORDY the Lesser Antiles are almost entirely Venetian I think England has only 2 colonies left in the area. Venice is also in Madagascar, the American Southeast, and India.

And Spain has done a pretty ugly job in the last couple of games that I have played of dealing with Mexico...The first game they never, nor did any other European power, conquer the Aztecs or the Maya. The Zapotecs ended up uniting the whole area, converted to Protestant..it was very strange, but kind of cool.

The game I am playing now, I gave Spain until 1585 and they still had not even made a real attempt at Mexico, but had managed to eat the whole Inca empire in a single gulp; so I decided I would see what I could do as Bavaria (got Antwerp in a peace deal) to conquer them. It's 1680 and I have the whole of Mexico under Bavarian control.

see 5837

by the way, a "default" explorer lives for 30 YEARS

 

[unmerged(36449)]

see 5837

by the way, a "default" explorer lives for 30 YEARS

good to know.. I will edit a save game file next game around and bump the Ventians a point or two toward land and see if that slows them down.

And ouch on the life span of the default explorers...

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Here you go. Just forgot to send it to yarovit to include in the last update.

Regarding the Dutch flag, I would use this: