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jovialbard

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I feel like an obligatory egocentric personal wishlist thread... how bout you?

I want!

Classic two-pane diplomacy. It's been said, but it bears repeating until it's a thing. Peace deals should be able to include give and take. While we're at it, why not allow the same sorts of exchanges while at peace. Sure, the AI would seriously appose certain deals (giving up territory) without some warscore to back it up, but if the price is right, or the threat is substantial, they might accept, albeit with some possible AE if it's being forced on them with threats.

Love the new trade system, but it needs one thing: dynamic trade. Yes, EU4 is trying to portray historical trade routes... but the reason those trade routes are historical is because powerful nations historically steered trade in that direction! Historically England dominated the British Isles for most of the game period, but the game still gives you the option to play Scotland and turn the tables. There's nothing physically stopping people from carrying trade from Tunis to Alexandria, but in most games the trade power of Europe will ensure that Tunisian trade goes North not East. If you play a powerful Muslim trading power that dominates the Mediterranean, there is no reason the historical routes would remain as they were. All trade should be two-way, and all trade nodes should be connected to all adjacent trade nodes. Let history play itself out, don't force it. While you can add nodes and routes with modding the game crashes if you introduce a loop, making it impossible to mod this sort of thing, aside from modding as you play by reversing routes that now have a reversed power balance in your current game.

Populate the New World So excited about news of the new expansion coming up! I hope it includes dealing with disease, depopulation, and those rude Europeans colonizing the land you already own (I picture something similar to the Steppe Nomads from EU3).

Longer low tech chain. Rather than huge tech cost and point penalties for non-western powers I'd rather see them start further behind on a much longer initial tech line. It would also be nice if their were some lower tech idea slots that Europeans started with and non-westerners could reach sooner. That last bit would require a fairly significant re-balance but it would give more options for exploring divergent histories.

It would be interesting if religious and/or cultural shifts worked like trade. High influence tends to spread to surrounding zones and missionaries can be used to "steer" or empower expansion in a particular direction or area. As the influence of a religion or culture expands in an area there is an increased chance that provinces will shift, particularly bordering provinces. I feel like this would feel more delicious than plopping a missionary in a particular province that you control and waiting. Also it would allow for less absolute cultural or religious shifts meaning two things. One: you can have minority religions and cultures present in a way that feels non-obtrusive to the normal game. Two: you stand a chance of converting Rome to Islam or Istanbul to Catholicism, the MTTH is just very long and requires a great deal of influence, whereas the current approach you need to take tremendous steps to even have 0.01 missionary power per month in a high tax province, and without that it just will not ever happen regardless of your otherwise overwhelming religious influence.

Non-Game-Mechanics Silliness

Hand of God mode! This would be a special mode that would allow you to possess any country at any time, or even possess nobody and just have a God's Eye view of the game. This would be so much fun! I sometimes have more fun laughing at how Tuscany takes over the new world, or how Japan conquers China than I do blobbing out myself. I'd like to fiddle with the mechanics and watch the world unfold, see what happens when you set Chinese tech group to have no tech penalties, watch out Europe! I like watching this game and fiddling with history as much as playing it, and it would be fun to have a mode that can let you do that. Yeah, you can save, exit, and then load as a different country, and you could always play as some backwater power that nobody cares about and just watch, but it would be easier to have a mode for that, and it doesn't seem like it would take much to implement.

Victoria 2 savegame converter pleaseeee, gimme gimme. I haven't even played the Victoria series yet, but I want to, and it would be so fun to play through from 9th to 20th century!

Forget that! Just make one game transition seamlessly into the other! And if you're playing a still feudal Japan in 1840, you're playing CK2 while France is off playing V2 :D Okay, yeah, that's getting a little crazy. (now he's getting crazy?!)

Tweaks and Musings

I feel like things would balance better if Administrative, Diplomatic, and Military were shifted to Economic, Political, and Military. Military would include your army but also your navy. Political would combine diplomatic activities with colonial and government tech. Economic would involve production and trade. Why? If you are a tradeing power, right now everything is Diplomatic. Your navy is primarily diplomatic, your trade buildings are diplomatic, your colonial and trade ranges and power are diplomatic... I feel like this change would balance things a little better.

I also wouldn't mind 6 tech paths instead of three. Production, Trade, Government, Colonization, Army, and Navy. It would give you more choices about what to sacrifice in exchange for what, and it would feed off of the neighbor bonus system better. It's the exchange of ideas in Europe that was the real powerhouse for innovation (and the fact that everyone else was just eaten by mongols) not some static "westernization" tech modifier.

I like the new traits and how there are more discrete bonuses, but I feel like a tree would be more fun that a set of linear paths. The tree could include decision points, going any further in Religious might cut you off from being fully Innovative at a certain point, which would reflect ye olde policy sliders from EU3. Though in general, I'd like to see more traits earlier in the game, so that you can define your nation as a unique and flavorful historical or ahistorical entity from the start.

That's it

Whatcha think? I'll probably come up with more stuff as I continue playing...
 
Last edited:

TheBloke

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Love the new trade system, but it needs one thing: dynamic trade.

Almost certainly won't ever happen in EU4. You said EU5 so that's cool, just mentioning :) Multiple dev comments indicate that the current system is pretty much locked-in.

Longer low tech chain. Rather than huge tech cost and point penalties for non-western powers I'd rather see them start further behind on a much longer initial tech line. It would also be nice if their were some lower tech idea slots that Europeans started with and non-westerners could reach sooner. That last bit would require a fairly significant re-balance but it would give more options for exploring divergent histories.

CoP's new Native Technologies kinda sorta goes along these lines. And now that the general mechanic is in, I would be confident if expansions to its use in future DLCs and patches. Extending the concept to other nations/nation types seems almost certain.

Hand of God mode! This would be a special mode that would allow you to possess any country at any time, or even possess nobody and just have a God's Eye view of the game.

You can do a lot of this already in non-Ironman games, using the Console.

Open the console (the ` key), and type: observe

That puts you into a spectator mode, with all nations controlled by the AI. All Terra Incognito and Fog of War reveals, so you can just scroll around and watch and see what develops.

There are also multiple console commands for manipulating the game. You can switch to control any nation with: tag <nation tag> e.g. to switch to England: tag ENG. You can instantly annex a nation; vassalise them; take control or ownership of any province; add or remove cores; add or remove admin, diplomatic, monarch points; kill your or any other monarch, or heir; add piety, Papal Influence, Imperial Authority; remove Terra Incognito and Fog of War; give yourself 100% WS in all current wars; turn the AI into a 'yesman' who will agree to any request you send it. And loads more!

Note that when you tag switch out of a nation, such that the AI is now controlling it, it gets 'frozen' for 12 months. It won't take many decisions, such as creating buildings or stacks, declaring war, joining a coalition, or even just answering diplomatic requests sent to it. This is done such that the AI doesn't just undo whatever you did when you were that nation. To get the AI back up and running as normal, save the game then reload it.

See here for a full list of the Console commands you can run: http://www.eu4wiki.com/Console#List_of_commands
 

jovialbard

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Almost certainly won't ever happen in EU4. You said EU5 so that's cool, just mentioning :) Multiple dev comments indicate that the current system is pretty much locked-in.

It's a shame that you can't even mod it either, there's probably an infinite loop buried in the code when you have circular trade routes. I can understand why they wouldn't take the time to fix change that kind of thing.


You can do a lot of this already in non-Ironman games, using the Console.

Open the console (the ` key), and type: observe

Awesome! That's pretty much exactly what I wanted, thanks!
 

mcmanusaur

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I think you have some fun ideas. I sort of long for "classic two-pane diplomacy" too, but oh well. Dynamic trade sounds nice but isn't possible due to the circular logic it would create, apparently. I was actually thinking to myself recently that it would be interesting to be able to play multiple countries of your choosing (obviously disqualifies Ironman mode); sure, you can kinda do this with the console but it's a bit inefficient. It would be cool to be playing one "game" over in East Asia while playing another in the HRE or whatever. Sure, then the player has advantages and what not, but who really cares. I don't see why it shouldn't be an option; maybe there's some technical reason.
 

jovialbard

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Dynamic trade sounds nice but isn't possible due to the circular logic it would create, apparently.

I don't think it would really be limiting. In the A->B->A case the opposing trade power would just cancel. I suppose the A->B->C->A case could theoretically cause a steering bonus to compound infinitely, but then that's an issue with how the steering bonus is applied and essentially collapses down to a path-finding problem. It wouldn't be hard for the algorithm to track where the trade is coming from and not apply the steering bonus more than once to any particular source of trade. Actually, that would be kind of fun and useful because then you could see exactly how much of the trade value in your London node is coming from your colonies in the Chesapeake Bay node.

Also, don't they already have to do something like this to know who is trading most in a particular item? Or do they just go by who has the most trading power in the local nodes to where that product is being produced? I haven't really looked into that, but I feel like basing it on who consumes the most final trade value of the good is a more accurate descriptor of who is trading in it most... right?
 

Labrynian Rebel

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1. Bring the new migratory mechanics to the hordes
2. Flesh out the Aztecs and Inca. For example the Aztecs should be a Triple Alliance between three city-states with the rest of their territory being vassals, would be neat if the Aztecs could wage flower wars.
3. Add East India companies that will allow port cities, monopolies and spheres of influence in the East. Also allow said companies to be able to take land and get their own armies so that they can potentially become a power house (British East India company anyone?) Pretty much make colonizing the Americas and colonizing Asia to be two different and unique experiences.
4. Fix Sub-saharan Africa, for example replace the dumb "Swahili" with the historic individual Swahili states.
5. Small changes to CKII converter that splits up "German" culture and fixes some tag mishaps (like Abyssinia does not convert to Ethiopia and Ostfriesland does not convert to East Frisia)
6. Add colonial region to South Africa and Australia/New Zealand
 

jovialbard

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Hmm, I was thinking about my dynamic trade comments from earlier. There is, of course, a simpler way to do it. Since you only collect trade income every month you could only have the trade values propagate once a month. It shows how much value will currently be generated locally plus transferred in when the next month hits. When the next month hits the steered trade moves one and only one node along. A tight loop with lots of trade power and merchants steering trade in a circle could keep growing and growing, but then that's money that's not going into anyone's coffers. After a few months someone is going to try to steer that away to claim it. If it's still a balance issue then you could easily have a rule that as trade money moves from node to node it remembers where it's been steered from, if the trade has already been steered out of this node it is considered stale and doesn't get any additional boosting. That's a relatively simple algorithm that could allow for dynamic trade routes. Any holes?

[some neat ideas]

some neat ideas!