That is not entirelly correct, based on the country you live in. And im not talking about adding Gamefeatures, but about fixing the game into a state it was advertised.
§434 BGB (Civil law) would be the case for germany.
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§434 BGB (Civil law) would be the case for germany.
This made me curious.
Do you never research anything before buying it?
Your logic seems to dictate research is useless because you can't possibly learn anything about a product until you own it.
As for Paradox's policy I certainly understand they won't accept people complaining about a game they don't own but if I was there in their shoes I'd definitely also want to know why they didn't buy it as a persons mere presence on this forum makes him a potential customer, and yea it's a thin red line between the two.
Let me try an analogy:
If you go to see a movie, which sucks, and doesn't provide what was promised in the trailer, will you go to the company/director and demand them to fix the movie?
If you go to see a movie, which sucks, and doesn't provide what was promised in the trailer, will you go to the company/director and demand them to fix the movie?
That's a really bad analogy, the analogy you're looking for is what I'd do if I bought a movie and chapter 4 won't play and the producer is telling me I'll get a working chapter 4 if only I buy the sequel.
Subjective views on whether a movie is good or a game is fun is something entirely different.
With due respect, Slan, but that analogy is horribly unfitting - i wont even start to point out why.
Unfortunately, our societies became quiet accostumed to lying (or exagerating, if you like that word better). Busniesses have to do it, in order to survive, sometimes. If one company successfully fools its costumers, its competitors will have to follow suit - or get bought out. Self-advertisements are the worst: Every radio station claims that they are playing the greatest varitey of songs, when they are all playing the same pop-crap over and over and over again, a dvd holds 4.7 gigs (not 4.3), politicians want to get elected, because they crave the responsibility of being the first servant of their people, BP is fixing that oil-spillage - for real this time and HoI3 allows for ´interaction with 1000s of historically accurate politcal and military leaders´. We are all part of this. Get mad.
It is, btw, true, that usually you are only entitled to complain, if you are affected - at least, that´s how it works with geman administration.
Unfortunately, our societies became quiet accostumed to lying (or exagerating, if you like that word better). Busniesses have to do it, in order to survive, sometimes. If one company successfully fools its costumers, its competitors will have to follow suit - or get bought out. Self-advertisements are the worst: Every radio station claims that they are playing the greatest varitey of songs, when they are all playing the same pop-crap over and over and over again, a dvd holds 4.7 gigs (not 4.3), politicians want to get elected, because they crave the responsibility of being the first servant of their people, BP is fixing that oil-spillage - for real this time and HoI3 allows for ´interaction with 1000s of historically accurate politcal and military leaders´. We are all part of this. Get mad.
It is, btw, true, that usually you are only entitled to complain, if you are affected - at least, that´s how it works with geman administration.
You bought the movie, and the 'Spectacular action!' consists of two punches, and that's it. And the special effects are made by a clearly visible wire. And the only 'drama' in the movie is a broken fingernail. These are the kinds of 'broken' stuff in HoI3. Not exactly a missing chapter.
I fail to see why it is a bad analogy. Both are entertainment, both are paid for, both are highly marketed, both are only there for fun. Comparing a game to a house or a car is much more unfitting.
Wow, you really don't read anything. My comment and reply, as well as Grunt11's reply, referenced games beyond HoI. Unless you truly believe no one has expressed hatred for any game in an online forum ever. Besides, I'd encourage you to read up the definition of "hate", because it pretty much fits some peoples expressed opinion of HoI3 as well.
I asked you once before in another thread to list at least one example of something that Paradox had promised with regards to HoI3 but had not delivered, and never got an answer, maybe you can give me one now? And remember to leave the personal opinion at home, what you read as a promise and what is actually promised are TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Well, if you consider, for example, that CVs do not need to have CAGs in the Pacific theatre, then I agree with you (/sarcasm).
Does that apply to software? I only took a quck look at an english translation, but I noticed:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#BGBengl_000P90
If it did, then surely no one would ever release software in Germany, because at any point you could be locked into a never-ending cycle of patching it for free until everyone who'd bought it was 100% satisfied with it.
One kind of people here complain because the game is not a game the like. To these guys your analogy is fitting.
the other kind of people complaining here complains because the game still has bugs, things not working properly etc. There your analogy falls short.
Off subject but CA released several new units free of charge. There were others you had to pay for (I didnt) and of course the new Napoleon (again which I didnt buy). I am not holding up CA as a good example, I will not be buying any of their products after ETW was so badly released. Its worrying Paradox are going down the same road, releasing an obviously broken game and then a few patches that do little and finally an 'expansion' that needs to be bought. I am not happy with this and I wanted to state it to them as I have done. Paradox have become another developer for me to be wary of future releases. I think its a shame after what they have done in the past as it was a shame with CA after what they had done in the past (the original MTW being one of my favourite games of all time). But this is what happens when you overstretch yourself and forget your priorities.
Spectacular action is still subjective. The game crashing or the US not putting cags on its carriers is not. It's two entirely different things.
Of course. I read dev journals, forums, previews, watch some screenshots. And after that I decide for myself if I would like to play this game. But I would never join any complain train on a forum, because some ppl think the game is a mess and full of bugs, before I would have bought and tested it.
Complaing about anything without testing it or making an own and free opinion is simply not right. Doing this reflects nothing but ignorance.
Okay, then i´ll have to explain: A movie is done once, then the settings are dumped (or whatnot). It´s not like you could just ´patch´ a movie - the relative (to the original movie, as well as compared to a game) cost is just much higher.
Also a movie only has a function on emotional level - if it ´works´ it will induce emotions on you. A game has, aside from that, many other -internal- functions. One could say, that a game like HoI3 probably has an extreme amount of such. The first sort of function, can only be evaluated subjectively - a movie does or does not ´work´ (e.g. seem believable) for you. The second sort of function can be evaluated objectively: America getting all of germany without taking part in the war is as broken to me as to anyone else (i think, that´s save to assume). CTDs are more clean cut examples of the latter.
A movie, you watch once, and you are pretty much done with it. Not so in a game. From a movie, you expect to be entertained for its duration (+ some minutes, if you really liked it, maybe) - not so with the game. That means, that a failing movie is like ´mehh - not my cup of tea, but whatever´, wheras a failing game is total dissappointment and many more hours of expected entertainment not delivered. Esp. in Hoi3, where you sink hour upon hour into the build up, only to have it all spoiled somewhere along the way, by some quirk.
If anything, i´d compare a movie to one game (match) of HoI3. One could count the times i tried to enjoy vanilla for a bad movie each (or most of them anyways). It´s more like getting the whole ´Police academy´-series, going through all of them, each time thinking ´now this one must be better than the last - hope it will at least be worth the hours watching it...´ - and we all know it´s not (´police academy´, i mean).
From my point of view together with Semper Fi release should be released 1.5 patch for Hoi3. It should be optimal for old and new custustomers of Hoi3 series. I always think that is better to any company (in long term) to satisfy old customers even having more costs.
I bet that more satisfied customers by such good company policy will buy Semper Fi then. Creating new paid expansions and leaving main title not fully patched is not a good sign. The main support effort should be always concentrated on already selled products. Not fully satisfied customer is less willing to buy something new from the same source.
I bet that more satisfied customers by such good company policy will buy Semper Fi then. Creating new paid expansions and leaving main title not fully patched is not a good sign. The main support effort should be always concentrated on already selled products. Not fully satisfied customer is less willing to buy something new from the same source.
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Complaining wasn't what I was refering to, I already acknowledged I understand Paradox's view on that.
It was this specific sentence of yours.
"If you haven't bought HOI3 you have absolutely no background to talk about it."
The difference in length only really apply to good games. Most of the 60$ games on the market you won't play more than two-three movies.
The difference in interactivity is why I play games instead of watching movies... It doesn't make them less comparable though, as both of them is only for entertainment. Nothing more.
Also, I do know about the bugs, and I also know they can be fixed/circumvented. And that's why I don't care about (most of) them. And again, to clarify: I believe everyone owning HoI3 has the right to complain about it, and I also support reporting bugs. What I don't support is demanding fixes, for two reasons. First, it won't make them more likely to happen. Long term strategy is a luxury, not everyone can afford. Blame market economy for that. (Or Canada, if you like.) Second, it makes everyone mad, those that made the game, those that are satisfied by the game, those that are not satisfied (even more mad, I mean). It is not constructive. Reporting bugs is good. Getting mad at them not being fixed is bad for your health. My problem is not with complaining, but with some people's attitude.
(And movies can be 'patched' by editing stuff in/out. Here.)
I must have missed where it said "When you buy this game we guarantee that it will be 100% bug free and that you are paying for everything your imagination can make!" because i seriously must have missed that...
The AMOUNT of retorict garbage flowing out of some of the mouths of the juvinille people in this thread is both appauling and makes me incredibly sad at humanity as a future.
If i had made a wager with Darwin that for every idiot (Yes reread that word) that says the "i wanna sue/i can sue because i didn't get what i paid for" i would be one rich man by now...
When you order a chocolate chip pastry from a store but it has no pastry, THAT is a case of you didn't get what you paid for.
Going and seeing a movie but then being told that the ending wont be showing, THAT is a case of you didn't get what you paid for.
A game company making a game (Form of media i might add) and it has ALL the features in it that were released and showen (And it was, weather they work or not is NOT RELEVANT) but they are somewhat buggy or somewhat lacking IN YOUR OWN OPNION, THAT is a case of you got what you paid for but YOU think YOU are missing something.
So please, enough with the retarded "I can sue" crap because, no you can't and you wont even if you could.
/end.
The AMOUNT of retorict garbage flowing out of some of the mouths of the juvinille people in this thread is both appauling and makes me incredibly sad at humanity as a future.
If i had made a wager with Darwin that for every idiot (Yes reread that word) that says the "i wanna sue/i can sue because i didn't get what i paid for" i would be one rich man by now...
When you order a chocolate chip pastry from a store but it has no pastry, THAT is a case of you didn't get what you paid for.
Going and seeing a movie but then being told that the ending wont be showing, THAT is a case of you didn't get what you paid for.
A game company making a game (Form of media i might add) and it has ALL the features in it that were released and showen (And it was, weather they work or not is NOT RELEVANT) but they are somewhat buggy or somewhat lacking IN YOUR OWN OPNION, THAT is a case of you got what you paid for but YOU think YOU are missing something.
So please, enough with the retarded "I can sue" crap because, no you can't and you wont even if you could.
/end.
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