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what the?
I never said SF should be released with the buggs...
just that the obvious bugs such as crashes should be taken care of without having to pay. Its a matter of principles, that if I buy a product, I should be able to play it. (which I can, but appearantly some can not.)
The first part was directed at Dev, only that little bit under the quote was directed at you. But principles? What principles are people talking about? All I see are people saying they'll the expansion only if they fix the bugs in HoI3, which they did with Semper Fi along with adding a bunch of new features. But they don't want to buy Semper Fi because it does fix the bugs that they want fixed? If Semper FI was nothing but bug fixes there would be an argument but that's not the case at all. It's a typical Paradox expansion with some new features, a lot of fine tuning of already implemented aspects, and some final bug squishing. What so is terrible in Semper Fi that seperates it from any other Paradox or hell any expansion pack for that matter.
I mean, where is the logic? You'll buy Semper Fi once the bugs in HoI3 that are fixed by Semper Fi, are fixed?
I mean, where is the logic? You'll buy Semper Fi once the bugs in HoI3 that are fixed by Semper Fi, are fixed?
Hey hey! It's the whiner brigade!
Don't like it? Don't buy it! +1 for consumer choice!
It's getting very old seeing you regurgitate the same argument over and over in repeated threads. We know you don't want to pay for what you view as a large patch. We also know you're wrong. So please, go play with ponies over there and let the big boys play their game in peace.
Don't like it? Don't buy it! +1 for consumer choice!
It's getting very old seeing you regurgitate the same argument over and over in repeated threads. We know you don't want to pay for what you view as a large patch. We also know you're wrong. So please, go play with ponies over there and let the big boys play their game in peace.
Hi abeth
Nice to see you around with your constructivism and deep thinking :rofl:.
I have really missed you!
Nice to see you around with your constructivism and deep thinking :rofl:.
I have really missed you!
So the OP is not going to buy SF because it contains bugfixes that haven't been applied to vannila HOI3?
But he is happy to pay for the new features SF adds to vannila HOI3?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face then aren't you?
Oh well your choice........ Why did you feel it was so overwhelmingly important to tell us all about your "moral stand" though?
But he is happy to pay for the new features SF adds to vannila HOI3?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face then aren't you?
Oh well your choice........ Why did you feel it was so overwhelmingly important to tell us all about your "moral stand" though?
Hi PrivateJoh
Nice to see you around with your increasingly repetitive complaints regarding the nature of Semper Fi, along with your typical buddies on this matter :rofl:
I haven't missed you at all, because you keep coming back!
Nice to see you around with your increasingly repetitive complaints regarding the nature of Semper Fi, along with your typical buddies on this matter :rofl:
I haven't missed you at all, because you keep coming back!
Personally I agree with the OP that PI's reputation for releasing buggy, unfinished games and only actually completing them after release is bad business practice. Other than pure fanboyism, I don't know how anyone gives them a free pass for it because I'm sure the same people who so vociferously defend PI's record here would be highly upset if, for example, their tax returns came back all messed up because the person or company filing them didn't finish their work and sent a half-finished return to the government. Taxes are quite a complex issue to deal with, and yet I don't think anyone is going to be satisfied with the excuse that "Oh well, my tax person tried really hard and will eventually fix it, and even though I may have to pay more money for what should've been done in the first place, it's okay."
I will probably buy Semper Fi eventually, but only after checking the forums to see that all the features actually work and no new major bugs have been introduced. As a customer I think it is pathetic that I do not have the confidence in PI's work that I feel the need to wait to buy SF to make sure I get my money's worth, but they have reaped what they have sown.
I will probably buy Semper Fi eventually, but only after checking the forums to see that all the features actually work and no new major bugs have been introduced. As a customer I think it is pathetic that I do not have the confidence in PI's work that I feel the need to wait to buy SF to make sure I get my money's worth, but they have reaped what they have sown.
Just out of pure curiosity, is this a Paradox only thing, or d you complain about other games? I could start listing off tons of bugs in various games I'd like to be fixed for free, but that doesn't happen (for one reason or another, mostly because development stops). Some of which leave unfinished bugs from the base game but still make an expansion. Yet I've not seen any of those games have anywhere near the level malcontent threads that are generated here. So what is it? Why is that so many feel people free to bash Paradox for doing it when I don't see anywhere near as many people going off on other games (except maybe CA for E:TW/N:TW).
LOL, you've obviously never been to the forums of a major developer like Bungie or Epic. The level of anger that literally tens of thousands of people spew out on those forums dwarfs these forums at their worst. People there are far more hostile, angry, and say anything and everything about the developers.
And I think many people here feel the need to bash PI for things that they feel are legitimate issues. Are there some people who just scream because there isn't a win button or some other dumb reason? Yes, but many seem to have legit reasons to be upset.
I'm well aware of the hate and discontent some people can express, but I'm talking specifically about the issue in this (and many other) threads, being that Paradox is releasing an expansion with known bugs in the base game that might not be fixed (at least without buying the expansion). Several people here are all to happy to express their negative opinions on that subject, when I've rarely seen that anywhere else.
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Its more the entitlement aspect of it all. Complaining about bugs being fixed or not fixed is common and everywhere. But complaining about a company releasing and supporting direct expansions (at the cost of supporting the base game without expansions) is the kicker.
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I'm sorry, but I don't get why you people are being immature and hostile towards someone because they don't like the fact that Paradox is charging to fix bugs/crashes that make the game unplayable to some people.
It's rather pathetic to see the same arguments people use against those who complain about paying for optional improvements in a topic about paying for BUG FIXES.
It's rather pathetic to see the same arguments people use against those who complain about paying for optional improvements in a topic about paying for BUG FIXES.
In addition, I would also like to know if the unit's pictures (incorrect atm) gonna be fixed at all?
Whose being immature and hostile?
Anyways, really we're just trying to understand why people are saying they'll buy Semper Fi once the major bugs are fixed in vanilla, even though apparently most or all of the major bugs have been fixed in Semper Fi. Why boycott something that you admit you want to buy, that fixes the things you want fixed on top of adding a slew of new and improved functions. If you want to boycott because you're tired of Paradox in general then that's all fine and dandy, can't really argue that.
But boycotting a product that does exactly what you want it to do because a small portion of it contains bug fixes you feel should be free, and admit you'd buy Semper Fi if Paradox does put the bug fixes in for free, which would mean you're spending your money and getting the product anyways which negates the reason for putting the fixes in for free. It just all seems like silly logic to me.
No.
Anyways, really we're just trying to understand why people are saying they'll buy Semper Fi once the major bugs are fixed in vanilla, even though apparently most or all of the major bugs have been fixed in Semper Fi. Why boycott something that you admit you want to buy, that fixes the things you want fixed on top of adding a slew of new and improved functions. If you want to boycott because you're tired of Paradox in general then that's all fine and dandy, can't really argue that.
But boycotting a product that does exactly what you want it to do because a small portion of it contains bug fixes you feel should be free, and admit you'd buy Semper Fi if Paradox does put the bug fixes in for free, which would mean you're spending your money and getting the product anyways which negates the reason for putting the fixes in for free. It just all seems like silly logic to me.
No.
It's not that Paradox purposely "charges" for bugfixes.
It's that Paradox can't afford to maintain dozens of branches of the same project.
What people have to understand is that the Paradox expansions practically form a "subscription" model to their games. As a niche product maker, Paradox can't just pump out blockbusters after 3 years of development by huge staffs with little to no bugs.
Once you understand that this is a subscription model and that maintaining multiple branches is impossible for the same reason a subscription model is needed, you have the context needed to understand the way Paradox acts.
It's that Paradox can't afford to maintain dozens of branches of the same project.
What people have to understand is that the Paradox expansions practically form a "subscription" model to their games. As a niche product maker, Paradox can't just pump out blockbusters after 3 years of development by huge staffs with little to no bugs.
Once you understand that this is a subscription model and that maintaining multiple branches is impossible for the same reason a subscription model is needed, you have the context needed to understand the way Paradox acts.
The part that pisses people off is that Paradox doesn't just say this. The customer doesn't have to understand anything beyond what is on the HoI3 box, which is a giant misrepresentation of what the game actually is.
I don't know you guys, but I'm still playing Hearts of Iron 3, and will so (With Semper Fi) till Paradox releases a new game in the Hoi3 series.
Even tho my friend call Hoi3 a "Bondevik Simulator", I will still play the game, why? because I love it.
I just love it all.
Even tho my friend call Hoi3 a "Bondevik Simulator", I will still play the game, why? because I love it.
I just love it all.
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Damnit, I'm getting better about not posting aggressive comments, but every now and then one slips through...
Damnit, I'm getting better about not posting aggressive comments, but every now and then one slips through...
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I'm no programmer but I'm aware there are programming tools which allows you to maintain different codebases with some ease and doing just that is common in the industry so I'm not sure what to say about your claim in that regard.
That wasn't really what I was asking for though, I'm asking them to fix glaring issues once and for all and not abandon an unfinished product.
and no it's certainly NOT a subscription model, a subscription would be an agreement between you and Paradox to pay for code maintance/upgrades and I don't recall ever having agreed to that.
What? You mean Paradox are intending to charge for Semper Fi? God thats really lame. I thought they were releasing it as a patch. Considering the original game is supposedly so broken to release such a thing and expect people who have wasted money on the full game to throw even more money into a duff product is unbelievable. I know the recession is hitting everyone but that is still pretty lousy. Ive said before I really like Paradox for HOI2 which is a great game but Im so glad I didnt buy HOI3 now. The only repectful thing to do to all the fans who bought the game on good faith is to release the thing free of charge. I will be thinking very carefully before I buy, and waiting for proper reviews on, any future Paradox products from now on. Shame on them I feel.
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