My thoughts on Norway (0.70.7)

[Solfall]

I did a quick playthrough as Norway with CORE again using the latest version. Here is what I thought could be done differently.

Norway preparing for war. That's cute. Historically, the Norwegian government barely did any military improvements as they wanted to be neutral. This is alright as a player because that's basically what you want, though the Norway AI should be very passive.
Aiding Finland. The option to actively support Finland gives you a 10+ relationship with Sweden, but nothing from Finland. I found that odd.
Getting Fleischer as a TT happens later then I'd like, but it makes sense. I believe you receive him when he was promoted to general and put in charge of North-Norway in 39. On the map he only have Winter Specialist. Offensive Doctrine should be included with him.
Norway's TTs in general feels a bit weak.
Norway lack in military. They had more divisions and could sport over 100.000 men if mobilized in 1940 historically. If one manpower is 1000 men, I couldn't get up to a hundred manpower even with total mobilization. Partial mobilization is for reservists and men in their twenties, right?
The ability to upgrade/change role of infantry like in DH. Yes, that would be swell.
A friend of mine made a pic for Normann who didn't have any. The system didn't allow me to upload the version that works with the game, so here's the original.

 

[Zsar1]

Norway preparing for war. That's cute. Historically, the Norwegian government barely did any military improvements as they wanted to be neutral. This is alright as a player because that's basically what you want, though the Norway AI should be very passive.

Mmh. Difficult. Those triggers are meant to catch the majority of situations, where a mobilisation would be warranted, though I can see how that differs from situations where it happened.
... So far we had acted on the consensus not to stifle the AI in these particular cases, as it needs more units than a player to be threatening to begin with - and is also weakened by its inflexible build list.

Mayhap we could make an exception for a country "destined to fail anyway", but quite frankly I do not think this would be a wise or conductive investment. @dec152000 : Thoughts?

Aiding Finland. The option to actively support Finland gives you a 10+ relationship with Sweden, but nothing from Finland. I found that odd.

Noted. Will investigate. Probably going to swap SWE for FIN.

Getting Fleischer [...] On the map he only have Winter Specialist. Offensive Doctrine should be included with him.

Could you make a case for why?

Norway lack in military. [...] more divisions [...] over 100.000 men if mobilized in 1940 [...]

Could you provide some detail on the missing divisions? Or more precisely: Does CORE represent a subset of the real army or different units? In many cases we have merged units which were historically independent, because individually they would be too small to be useful in-game.

Regarding the mobilisation pool, that is a bit of a problem with several small countries. For Ethiopia, I added several hundred MP on the same assumption as you made (1 MP ~~ 1000 Men), and before I touched it, it had just barely enough to fully reinforce its starting army (even though that, again, was horribly understrength).
- I would like @dec152000 to have a look at that. For different countries there may be assumptions that affect how much of their reported strength we represent. Sadly, we (and more importantly our predecessors) neglected to always write down what those assumptions were, so at times for something that is clearly WAD (as in: has consciously and repeatedly been changed to approximate some unknown ideal) it is no longer possible to discern why it is.

The ability to upgrade/change role of infantry like in DH. Yes, that would be swell.

Nothing a mod can do. If you stick around for a couple of years, mayhap it will eventually become possible. Of course, CORE would adapt to make use of that functionality as soon as it appeared.

--

@Hagar : Oh look, a pretty picture! Could you... ?

 

[Solfall]

Different mods and games covers different things better. I recommend taking a quick look at DH. There Norway have 6 infantry division. Trondheim should also have land forts. They have two points of land forts in DH.

About Fleischer. I'm currently reading a book about him and I can definitely confirm that he specialized in being offensive. Using troops with mobility and the advantage of terrain to attack the flanks of the enemy. While the enemy is attacking a stronghold position for example. It's interesting to read his military theories because they match pretty well with my strategies developed by playing as Norway. Only problem is that I can't really use offensive and mobility due to the large provinces on the map. Also, he has Offensive Doctrine in DH.

I find it strange for Norway to initiate a total mobilization, too. If that includes mobilizing boys and old men that is. It happened during the first month of the war in my game.

 

[Hagar]

@Hagar : Oh look, a pretty picture! Could you... ?

Sure, and I have.

 

[Solfall]

Sure, and I have.

Thanks! Though the pic is for regular AoD... Sorry about that.

 

[Solfall]

Is there someone who works with regular AoD? I was thinking of providing some feedback if there are some devs around for it.

 

[Solfall]

Would the King's speech on 17. May, our independence day be worthy of being included to the game's spice? The King visited from England in the yet unconquered North Norway. The speech itself may be too long for one event box, but I could do a translation if there are none on the web. That is if you want the whole speech.

 

[Zsar1]

Would be a possible flavour event. If you provide a translation, I can put it in (cut, if necessary).

Is there someone who works with regular AoD? I was thinking of providing some feedback if there are some devs around for it.

You will probably not find anyone working on the softcode in this subforum. - But @Pioniere is pretty active in the base forum.

 

[Pioniere]

Hi, im not into Norway nowdays. I did however found a picture of Normann that was added in 1.9. patch.
The change for Norway I would like to see is in manpower: 6 in Oslo, 1 in Trondheim and 1 in Bergen.

 

[Solfall]

More manpower would be very welcome. I shall try out 1.9 soon. Here's my shot at translating the King's speech:

I believe that everyone in this land would understand that it is with deep sadness and
sorrow that I today remembers the many happy moments me and my
family from the castle balcony in Oslo have received the parade the 17th of May,
representing the happy and cheering Norway.

When I today cannot do this, it will be understood that I feel a great
urge to send a greeting to whole of Norway on our day of independence.

In over a hundred years have this day gathered the Norwegian people to
the idea of freedom and of the work of freedom from Eidsvoll, and we have always promised
each other that we would own this land.

Our foreign politics have always been to keep Norway out of all
European conflicts, but despite having taken a strict
neutral stance to all sides, were we on the 9th of April assaulted by a
nation that, because it itself doesn't know what personal freedom is, can't
understand what horrible injustice it have committed to a
small, freedom-loving people.

We were standing with the choice to appease and submit,
or try protecting all that we consider holy and worthy to
live by.

For the answer of our independence and our self respect as a nation,
there was only one path to choose. We chose as far as it could reach to
maintain autonomy. It has already cost
considerable sacrifice, and after three weeks of heroic resistance had the whole of
southern Norway be given.

But North-Norway can we still call ours. This region who in
earlier years may not have been heeded by its deeds, but
who in these days shows that it with excellence and dignity can
represent a free and independent Norway. And it is my hope that we
from here with our allies' help must be able to organize our defense
anew and hereby regain freedom for the Norwegian people.

I thank everyone who in the past weeks of the war have done theirs to stop
and sustain the invading enemy. I especially want to thank
the marine for its efforts, who have fully stood in height with
our traditions, and who have won great recognition even
with our allies.

I thank the army for what they have been able to achieve despite
their most desperate mobilization conditions.

I also express my thanks to all who in different ways have
helped the military body in these difficult days, for example
telegraph operators, railway workers, workers who under aerial attack and
machine gun fire have maintained our communications for
as long as possible

Last, but not least, a warm thank to the civilian population in all
parts of the country for their tolerance, sacrifice and resignation
shown, despite so many having to see their homes and lifeworks
destroyed.

To countrymen in the occupied area, I would like to express the hope that you
must not lose courage, and that in not too long will succeed in regaining
your freedom, and I beg you not to lose faith in your liberation.

Be assured that for the coming generation, who shall rebuild
the land after all its destruction, will be of utmost
importance for you to do all to keep Norway as a free,
independent country. This time of trial may fall easier if we look
at it that way.

At last I would like to honour the poet's word:

"This land is ours
and we love it for
what it was, what it is, what it will become again.
And as love grows
for the earth of the Homeland
shall it grow from our seeds of love again."

God bless our precious fatherland!

 

[Solfall]

Here's what MauserM98 came up with. I'd love to bring in more data in the future, if any.

Here is a direct copy of an old post ive made in some other mod forums, and i dont think it was implemented. I know its just a minor thing for most players, but playing norway as it is now is kind of pointless since you start with under 10% of the forces the country really had, an the economy makes it IMPOSSIBLE to even create the army the norwegians really had. Feel free to fix this in TRP if you want, though i know its not making a Huge difference for the great powers.

In vanilla, and TRP the OOB is: 6. Divisjon and "den norske hær", whatever that is supposed to be. Here is the actual OOB for norway in the time period:

PS: IR stands for Infanteri Regiment, and dont know if mt. artillery exists in trp, so maybe make it artillery instead.

Copy/Paste:

1. Divisjon, commanded by Erichsen. located in Halden, shoutheast of Oslo bordering Sweden.
IR 1
IR 2
IR 3

2. Divisjon, commanded by Hvinden-Haug, located in Oslo.
IR 4
IR 5
IR 6

3. Divisjon, commanded by Liljedahl, located in Kristiansand in southern Norway.
IR 7
IR 8

4. Divisjon, commanded by Steffens, located in Bergen on the westcoast.
IR 9
IR 10

5. Divisjon, commanded by Laurantzon, located in Trondheim on the Northwestern coast.
IR 11
IR 12
IR 13

6. Divisjon, commanded by Fleischer, located in Harstad near Narvik.
IR 14
IR 15
IR 16.


Indepentent units:

1. Dragonregiment (cavalry)
2. Dragonregiment (cavalry)
3. Dragonregiment (cavalry) (maby make them one cavalry division?)

1. Artilleriregiment
2. Artilleriregiment
3. Artilleriregiment (all Artillery regiments as you probably figure, maybe mix them in in some of the divisions?)

1. Bergartilleribataljon
2. Bergartilleribataljon
3. Bergartilleribataljon (Mountain Artillery Battalions, maybe make one Mountain Artillery Brigade of them?)

HM Kongens Garde in Oslo. Maybe a Garrison unit or elite unit for flavour?

Alta bataljon
Varanger bataljon. Both in Northern Norway, mabe make them a Ski Brigade, or Mountaineers? They were both well trained in snow and mountain warfare.

Airunits where specially weak, so maybe one airwing is more than enough. probably Multi Role, as they were a mix of different types.

About the ships it seems right as it is. exept they had a number of torpedo boats wich gave the german destroyers a good fight. would probably add maybe 2 units of torpedoboats.

Mauserm98

 

[MauserM98]

As Solfall said, norway is quite underpowered as it is. Ill do my best to answer any questions, as i have a good deal of knowledge on the subject.
Btw, thx for that old quote Solfall

 

[Solfall]

Hey! Long time no see. There is one thing I wonder about. Where did you get this data?
Also, Black Ice's latest version came with more buildings. Check out my BICE Norway Improved post. Maybe you know of any buildings I've missed. You can see the list of buildings here:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/black-ice-players-manual-and-guide.879770/

 

[MauserM98]

Through a big number of books, one example is "9. April" by the swedish authors Michael Tamelander and Niklas Zetterling. Available in Norsk