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Martin_Mortyry

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With each installment it’s getting more apparent that EU4 desperately needs two mechanics: dynamic country names and a dynastic system. As The First one isn’t something you can really discuss(maybe except for dynamic names for Baltic Orders, Timurids and so on), the second one is a very complex concept - there are probably a dozen different ideas how to do it on this forum alone so I think I could try my luck as well.

Warning! A huge wall of text inbound!

  1. Why does EU4 need a dynastic system?
    Europa Universalis IV is set in really interesting and diverse times - era of slowly leaving the thousand years old system, from late feudal period of the first few decades, through an era of empires and absolute monarchies up to the birth of modern republics. No matter how you look at it though, dynasties still played a huge role throughout this timeframe, maybe even moreso than in the one presented in the Crusader Kings series: Habsburgs rising to power, their rivalry with Jagiellons, the Burgundian crisis, Iberian Wedding, countless wars of succession... Some of these events are railroaded, successions/inheritances/dynasty takeovers happen randomly, with player usually not being able to decide about it. The question isn't does EU need a dynasty mechanics, the question is: why wasn't it implemented in the base game?

  2. How to implement it?
    There are many ways Paradox could implement dynastic mechanics into the game. It obviously would take after CK, but in a more intuitive way. I think the mechanic should be centred around one basic action: the royal marriage.

  3. How would it work?
    If two countries have the royal marriage, they would be able to discuss certain issues, e.g. which family member would marry whom, based on dynastic trees(about which I'll talk later), which one of them would rule the country and, most importantly, the succession. Different proposals could be made for assured succession and succession crisis, among them should appear:
    -X's dynasty takes over the throne of Y.
    -X forms personal union over Y.
    -X forms personal union over Y, with Y's king as a ruler. (case of Poland and Lithuania in 1444).
    -X and Y partition Z. (case of Burgundy in 1444)
    -X inherits Y.
    -X inherits part Y's land.
    And probably others.

    Both parties would be taking part in negotiations, in a way similar to peace deals. A powerful country would never accept a deal in which they would become a lesser partner in union under some HRE minor. They could, on the other hand, accept the minor's dynasty on their throne, especially if the house they come from is big and influencial, for example von Habsburg.

    A country could control its succession line itself as well. For example if a feudal country has 2 heirs, it could have a few options:
    -feudal fragmentation, splitting the country in half.
    -granting the second son bunch of provinces, this way increasing their autonomy.
    -granting the second son a land in a form of released vassal or placing him on already existing vassal's throne.
    -doing nothing, which could result in a massive pretender revolt, depending on the son's personality.

    Changes in the Will could cause a third party intervention, which might result in a succession war. The intervention could come from other tags married to disputed country or from a Great Power if the matter takes place in their sphere of influence.

  4. The dynastic tree
    As mentioned before, EU4 is in a dire need of dynastic trees. By no means should they be as complex as the ones in Crusader Kings - in case of EU the only thing that is needed is the ruling dynasty. Although marrying inside your own country should be possible as well, it could just be a randomly generated noble.

    The dynastic window would normally show only the members of your country's branch of the dynasty. Every member would have their stats and personalities. There could be a few uses for the window, but it would foremostly be for succession negotiations and finding a marriage for your heir/aunt/whomever.

    Besides the main screen with your own dynasty's branch, the window would also compose of:
    -"show only unmarried members" checkbox.
    -"show the whole dyansty" checkbox which would include branches of the dynasty in other countries.
    -"Show possible heirs to the throne" checkbox including heirs from other countries.
    -tabs for easy access to dynastic trees of countries married to you.

  5. Miscellaneous
    -Some dynasties could get "common roots" modifier, which would grant +10 relations between the dynasties and include them in "whole dynasty" option of dynastic tree tab. Dynasties with common roots could for example be de Valois and de Bourgogne.
    -Some countries should start with predetermined testament, for example: Burgundy would start with the will indicating partition between the emperor(unless Burgundy marries Castile) and France ; Poland would start with the testament causing a personal union over Lithuania with Kazimierz Jagiellon as a ruler in a period of 3 years.
    -Countries married to a dynasty should get +10 "married into our dynasty" relation boost with every other member of the house, unless they rival the married tag.
I think that's it. Looks quite complicated on paper but hopefully it won't be all that confusing in the game, and I assure you it will be much less of a mess than what we've got in CK 80% of the time... :rolleyes:

HopefullyI didn't miss anything I wanted to write, because this thread had been in making all day with pretty big gaps in between writing.
 
Last edited:

Karl der Fünfte

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I think it´s a good idea to establish a better dynasty-system: It´s often luck if you get a PU ore your dynasty on others throne.
But I have to say that it shouldn´t become to complicated. Such thinks as Gavelkind (parting the country under the successors) are still observable in the time of euiv, but extremly rare.
Also should the charactre not be as specified as in CrusaderKings II, because it wouldn´t improove but change the game.

Prablamatic are such cases of Elizabeth I. Tudor after the Stuart-Dynasty inherited and these cases were countries get a new dynasty when they become free from a PU (it´s not mentiened).
 
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Martin_Mortyry

A pretentious asshole who thinks he knows history
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But I have to say that it shouldn´t become to complicated. Such thinks as Gavelkind (parting the country under the successors) are still observable in the time of euiv, but extremly rare.
That's why I stated the country has to be feudal, i.e. early game.

Also should the charactre not be as specified as in CrusaderKings II, because it wouldn´t improove but change the gam
I fully agree with that. What has been shown in DD about personalities should be enough, IMO.

Prablamatic are such cases of Elizabeth I. Tudor after the Stuart-Dynasty inherited and these cases were countries get a new dynasty when they become free from a PU (it´s not mentiened).
In case of breaking a union it was often some more influencial noble who took over the throne(e.g. Romanovs in Russia) or other members of previous ruling dynasty(e.g. Charles IX Vasa in Sweden). New rulers could also be proposed by a country supporting their independence - I don't have any examples at the moment, but I think something like that had to happen, and besides - it would be a pretty cool option.
 
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