My subject's subject/s shouldn't be able to fight in my offensive wars

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

JayD

Second Lieutenant
29 Badges
Oct 17, 2017
106
161
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Two suggestions to make the game better:
  1. My subject's subjects shouldn't be able to fight in my offensive wars. There was a principle in most European countries (excluding England) that a vassal of my vassal is not my vassal.
  2. "Transfer occupation" window should show countries in alphabetical order as currently there's random order.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Upvote 0

JayD

Second Lieutenant
29 Badges
Oct 17, 2017
106
161
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
If you're the emperor and also king of bohemia due to a pu, shouldn't your silesian vassals help out?
In defensive wars yes but does it make sense to die for my overlord's liege in an offensive war? Were there any cases like this irl? If so it shouldn't be "free" ingame and should cost i.e. increased subject's LD.
 

Blk82

Lt. General
13 Badges
Sep 8, 2018
1.515
2.504
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
In defensive wars yes but does it make sense to die for my overlord's liege in an offensive war? Were there any cases like this irl? If so it shouldn't be "free" ingame and should cost i.e. increased subject's LD.

The game's concept of a "vassal" is a rather hazy concept. Technically, "vassals of vassals" do not exist in the game. Some subject of subject cases can exist, such as vassals of junior partners, but those are still direct vassals of the person of the sovereign, even if it is a subject of a subject of the "tag." Likewise, there are quasi-subjects who have some protections from a higher "liege" but remain effectively sovereign, such as the Princes of the HRE or tributaries.

What would you even consider a "vassal of a vassal" in real life? The only example I can think off of hand is a native tribe which is loyal to a colonial nation. I can list some nominal examples, such as the American colonies being subject to the English crown, which was technically the junior partner of Scotland until 1707. Likewise, Aragon was technically the senior partner in Spain, making Castile's colonies vassals of a vassal. But in both cases, the game lists that England and Castile as the senior partner for playability reasons.

In classical feudalism, the lords of the realm were required to supply the liege with troops, and that hierarchy worked all the way down to the bottom of the feudal hierarchy. I.e. the king would demand troops from his direct vassals, who are in turn supplied with troops by the next level down, and so on.

By the game's logic, a vassal is effectively a client state, having no agency in terms of foreign relations, except its ability to rebel against its liege. Therefore, a vassal can't be a true overlord in its own right, as it is not even a real state.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions: