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GeneralZaphod

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I have two general suggestions, and here is the first:

The first I know has been hashed about for eons, but I wanted to give my input to it. The slider bars are nothing but a micro-managment nightmare. The DD attempt at automation was terrible. I turned that on the first time, and it simply did not do anything close to what I wanted.

How irritating is it to have to adjust the sliders 4383 times in a 12 year game? If you spend 10 seconds doing this that equates to 12 hours of time! That is half a day of my life lost to something that could easily be automated to adjust to my specific needs.

I propose a simple set of buttons, check boxes, or lock mechanisms to facilitate some automated handling of the boxes. I think this can be simplified into a few catagories of a desired method of handling. Note that ALL of these must be overriden when conditions are such that values reach zero, or must come from somewhere (more on this below).

1. Keep this slider at this value exactly: If I want it to be 50, it will stay at 50 until there is no other place to borrow from. For example if I only want to allocate 50 IC to supplies indefinitely, it allows for this.
2. Keep slider at or above this setting: Allow value to go higher than this value, and any excess is split between this slider and any others allowed to go higher.
3. Keep slider at or below this setting: excess only goes to this slider up to this value. Is allowed to borrow from this slider.
4. Match Demand/need exactly: slider fluxuates with demand in this catagory. Can't borrow from, or add to.
5. Match Demand, or allow to go higher: Not allowed to go less than demand, but can borrow from until that is reached, surplus is split between bars allowed to go higher.
6. Match Demand, or allow to go lower: Not allowed to exceed demand, but system can borrow from this slider if needed.
7. Unlocked and floating: surplus goes to, or borrrowing is retrieved from this slider, and before others.
8. Set X.XX above demand.
9. Set X.XX above demand OR MORE.

Next, each slider has a unique priority from 1 to the number of sliders, none being equal. Borrowing is done from the lowest priority first when the above conditions have nothing left to borrow from based on your settings. Once that reaches zero, the next lowest priority is retrieve, etc on until everything is on one slider.

Balancing occurs once per day after the daily slider adjustments are made.

When I am playing, most of the time I do this:

1. Goods: priority 1: set to always meet demand exactly, or be X.XX above demand exactly.
2. Production: priority 2: Regardless, production is always met unless it would effect goods.
3. Supplies: priority 4: This is either fixed at X.XX, or if I had the option to set it X.XX above demand or more. Surplus goes here when upgrade demand is met.
4. Reinforcments: priority 3: Always set to meet demand unless nothing available in lower priorities.
5. Upgrade: priority 5: Meet demand or lower

Using one of the settings I suggested would allow for the computer to pretty much keep the sliders set exactly as I want them to be per my settings above.

One last item on this: I see that demand fluxates every other day. For example, on the first, metal may be +16, on the second -73, then the third +16 again, etc. This is VERY irritating and could easily be fixed to be averaged so it does not do this. This should definitely be fixed. Likewise, I have also noticed that the supply slider does this same needless fluxuation every other day. At some points, the upgrade slider does as well, but not always. Those should be averaged out to avoid the fluxuation. The upgrade bar demand should never fluxuate at all unless something is added to the list, or removed from it.

I will post the second idea separately.
 
Aug 1, 2008
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Wow, I agree with most of this. Something definitely needs to be done with the sliders! It's most annoying flipping back and forth between the production screen and other screens almost every single day to maximize IC efficiency and minimize waste.
 

AdmiralNelson

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GeneralZaphod said:
1. Keep this slider at this value exactly: If I want it to be 50, it will stay at 50 until there is no other place to borrow from. For example if I only want to allocate 50 IC to supplies indefinitely, it allows for this.
2. Keep slider at or above this setting: Allow value to go higher than this value, and any excess is split between this slider and any others allowed to go higher.
3. Keep slider at or below this setting: excess only goes to this slider up to this value. Is allowed to borrow from this slider.
4. Match Demand/need exactly: slider fluxuates with demand in this catagory. Can't borrow from, or add to.
5. Match Demand, or allow to go higher: Not allowed to go less than demand, but can borrow from until that is reached, surplus is split between bars allowed to go higher.
6. Match Demand, or allow to go lower: Not allowed to exceed demand, but system can borrow from this slider if needed.
7. Unlocked and floating: surplus goes to, or borrrowing is retrieved from this slider, and before others.
8. Set X.XX above demand.
9. Set X.XX above demand OR MORE.

Excellent. I like these options as they are. :)
 

unmerged(87984)

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AdmiralNelson said:
Excellent. I like these options as they are. :)


seconded.

I hated to fiddle with these bars, the automation was not satisfying and fine-tuning it manually involved a lot of time. Not difficult, but unnecessarily time-consuming.
 

unmerged(105596)

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Great ideas here, but I would also be happy with just one button that would set that slider to exactly match the need. No more clicking + or - to get the fractions right...
 
Aug 1, 2008
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Velko said:
Great ideas here, but I would also be happy with just one button that would set that slider to exactly match the need. No more clicking + or - to get the fractions right...


Well, Paradox already tried that with the IC automation option button. It does a sloppy job at best because there is so much fluctuation from supplies, dissent, and reinforcements.
 

unmerged(58541)

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Bismarck96 said:
Wow, I agree with most of this. Something definitely needs to be done with the sliders! It's most annoying flipping back and forth between the production screen and other screens almost every single day to maximize IC efficiency and minimize waste.

Indeed
 

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Bismarck96 said:
Well, Paradox already tried that with the IC automation option button. It does a sloppy job at best because there is so much fluctuation from supplies, dissent, and reinforcements.

No they did not. The auto-slider thingy affected every slider and altered them continuously. What I want is a button that sets one slider to match the current demand and keeps it at that specific number until I personally want to change it, no matter how the demand alters after that. Two compeletely different issues.
 

Pal

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Viffe said:
i agree the slider management is boring and time consuming, evry time you finish a division ju have to adjust
? I use auto-sliders and I am quite satisfied with them. The only thing I miss is the option to set a slider at a fixed amount which does not equal demand.

Right now the only situation in which I need to intervene with the auto-sliders is when I don't want them to put anything into upgrades or reinforcements. While I could set all units to "not allow upgrades / reinforcements", this is absolutely undoable wih countries like the Soviet Union.

So what we really need from the OP's list:
1.) checkbox "leave at this absolute position"
2.) checkbox "cover demand + X", with X being anything from 0 to max
3.) priority

With these three buttons you can easily adjust the autosliders as you like. Personally, I'd really only need the first of these, since then I could finally tell the autosliders to leave upgrades at 0 while everything else is automated.
 

harcan25

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Great idea from the OP. The current slider system is very frustrating. I spend more time in the economic screen than on the map. IF... for some reason this is not possible. They can at the very least have us type the numbers instead of the constant + and - click fest. :mad:
 

jdrou

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Pal said:
Right now the only situation in which I need to intervene with the auto-sliders is when I don't want them to put anything into upgrades or reinforcements. While I could set all units to "not allow upgrades / reinforcements", this is absolutely undoable wih countries like the Soviet Union.
As was suggested in another thread, it would be very useful to have buttons to set 'do not upgrade' and 'do not reinforce' globally so you can then select the units you DO want to upgrade/reinforce. Setting these for individual units (or globally) from the ledger would also be useful.

I would also like to see some of the OP's ideas for slider management added.
 

unmerged(17791)

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The sliders take up too much time. I despise them. But, such is life. Good, common sense ideas, from the OP. "Meet demand" for consumer goods, etc. should be handy.

Something in this area is strongly desired. Just don't take away any player abilities.
 
Jul 21, 2006
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Certainly not going to argue against improvements, and the slider automation could well use an update.

However, the automation in HoI2 is quite usable, you just have to work with it, rather then expecting it to work like you wish.

I keep it on auto and production priority 95% of the time. In order, it will match your CG need, your supply need when you have 2000 supplies or less, your production need, increasing supply stockpile to 2000, dissent reduction, reinforcement, then upgrades. (Though I'm not 100% on the order of getting 2000 supplies vs dissent reduction)

Pal's issue with not wanting to upgrade or reinforce units, and this means he would rather want to stockpile supplies, can be dealt with by filling the prouction que to, or over, capacity, but then supply stockpile won't build up.

In addition to Pal's issue there are two issues I have with the current system.

Money generation is less then expenses, even though plenty of money is stockpiled -> wasted IC into consumer goods to meet money expenses.
Simply trade for enough money to cover your tech team expenses, and the CG slider will drop to minimum CG need. If trading is not possible, you have to go manual to avoid wasting IC.

Dissent reduction when you would rather wait for an event that will reduce it.
Fill production que to capacity or go manual until the event


When you have to go manual and your total IC changes all the time, for instance if being strat-bombed or while reducing dissent, simply put one or several items into the prouction que that you want built at some point but are not in a hurry to get, underfund them, and use them as a buffer. Brigades, single units, rocket base etc.

Also always underfund both upgrades and reinforcement.

These three issues would all be solved simply by allowing a manual lock on sliders while in automated mode, as long as the CG slider, but not the others, would lock at a percentage of total IC, and not at a fixed value. (I.e. so as to meet minimum CG need, but not reduce dissent or produce money.)

While it'd be nice with the somewhat complex system in the OP, it really isn't neccessary.
 
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