My Problem with the Great Pox

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Hi Guys,

I have a problem with the "Great Pox" or maybe just a lack of understanding.
According to Wikipedia, the Great Pox are actually Syphillis.
But if that is the case, wasn't Syphilis brought America to Europe by Columbus in the columbian-exchange?

There should be no sign of the Great Pox in CK2 then.

Is there any other diseas that could be identified as "Great Pox"?

Thanks.

Edit: To be fair: I got the most of my info on the topic from here:

 

[GothicEmperor]

A few years ago there was a bit more debate about the origin of syphilis, but yeah, the 'it was here already'-stance isn't very tenable.
I'm not bothered by it myself; it's just a cypher for 'really bad chronic STD'.

 

[Marinaliteyears]

I may be misremembering, but, isnt the great pox only available with sunset invasion enabled? As in, an Invasion from the americas?

 

[Lazarae]

I may be misremembering, but, isnt the great pox only available with sunset invasion enabled? As in, an Invasion from the americas?

Nope, that's smallpox I think.

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

There's smallpox, and then there's also the Great Pox. Either way, it's ahistorical, but doesn't really bother me tbh.

 

[Vaximillian]

I may be misremembering, but, isnt the great pox only available with sunset invasion enabled? As in, an Invasion from the americas?

That's the Aztec Disease. The great pox is different in the game.

 

[SovereignGrave]

I may be misremembering, but, isnt the great pox only available with sunset invasion enabled? As in, an Invasion from the americas?

If I'm remembering correctly, Sunset Invasion actually outright adds syphilis as a disease that the Aztecs bring over from the Americas.

 

[Marinaliteyears]

If I'm remembering correctly, Sunset Invasion actually outright adds syphilis as a disease that the Aztecs bring over from the Americas.

yeah, That does seem to be the case, With a glance at the wiki. both are calle syphilis at different points, though, even there.
It seems to be a confusing situation.

 

[abauer2]

If I'm remembering correctly, Sunset Invasion actually outright adds syphilis as a disease that the Aztecs bring over from the Americas.

I think it actually adds a hypothetical new disease to the game, as in, the Aztecs have some epidemic that they bring over that never occurred historically, probably because there weren't as many large urban centers in the Americas for such diseases to spread.

Syphilis generally didn't cause massive plagues (except for during war?) since it's spread by physical contact.

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

If I'm remembering correctly, Sunset Invasion actually outright adds syphilis as a disease that the Aztecs bring over from the Americas.

This is open for discussion as the the tool-tip for "Great Pox" says "...also known as Syphilis" when you mouse-over it.
And yes, Great Pox appear in my game and I dont even own Sunset Invasion.

 

[Fitzjacob]

This is open for discussion as the the tool-tip for "Great Pox" says "...also known as Syphilis" when you mouse-over it.
And yes, Great Pox appear in my game and I dont even own Sunset Invasion.

Syphilis as a disease as its own (different from Great Pox) is added with the Sunset Invasion and is spread by event once the invasion has started. This might have been changed with Reapers Due as I haven't encountered Aztecs with the new dlc enabled.

Poorly updated tooltips is no surprise in a Paradox game though. They should remove any mention of Syphilis if it's meant to be a different disease (which Sunset Invasion suggests). But there are many tooltip fixes that are higher on my list such as any mention of seizing land and wealth after banishment.

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Maybe this thread belongs in the Bug-Report-section then.

 

[CSAGeneral]

Syphilis should not be present in Europe until the 1490s, and it indeed originated in the Western Hemisphere. The Great Pox is another name for syphilis. It shouldn't be in this game but unfortunately I don't know of a mod that removes it.

 

[CSAGeneral]

Syphilis as a disease as its own (different from Great Pox) is added with the Sunset Invasion and is spread by event once the invasion has started. This might have been changed with Reapers Due as I haven't encountered Aztecs with the new dlc enabled.

Poorly updated tooltips is no surprise in a Paradox game though. They should remove any mention of Syphilis if it's meant to be a different disease (which Sunset Invasion suggests). But there are many tooltip fixes that are higher on my list such as any mention of seizing land and wealth after banishment.

This is not a tooltip issue. The Great Pox historically refers to one disease, and one disease only: syphilis.

 

[blackchoas]

there is some debate on this topic, syphilis may have already existed in a different form in the old world but either was replaced or mutated with the strain from the new world, we aren't entirely sure and STDs aren't exactly well documented for multiple reasons

 

[aono]

As I recalling, this claim is dismissed today (I liked that theory through).

 

[CSAGeneral]

As I recalling, this claim is dismissed today (I liked that theory through).

Uh, sorry, but you're incorrect. There were diseases in the same family as syphilis present in sub-Saharan Africa in the Middle Ages, although I don't think they were sexually transmitted. The disease syphilis was only present in the Western Hemisphere, and when infected soldiers brought it to Europe, it broke out in the 1490s in a great epidemic due to the lack of any immunity to the disease, similar to what the Amerindians experienced with smallpox. From the 1490s to the 1590s, it is estimated that one million Europeans died of syphilis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_syphilis#European_outbreak

 

[aono]

Uh, sorry, but you're incorrect.

I can be incorrect, sure (not exactly my area of expertise), but this link contains exactly what I'm saying - claim about pre-Columbian syphilis is dismissed today (it was hotly debated when I used to get education though). Maybe I wasn't clear, but my remark was an answer for a remark just before answer, not about starting post.

 

[CSAGeneral]

I can be incorrect, sure (not exactly my area of expertise), but this link contains exactly what I'm saying - claim about pre-Columbian syphilis is dismissed today (it was hotly debated when I used to get education though). Maybe I wasn't clear, but my remark was an answer for a remark just before answer, not about starting post.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Apologies.