My last plea

[robc04]

First, I want to thank everyone who has answered my questions so far in other threads.

After seeing so much praise for the game, I really want to like this one. I think EU III is a pretty good game and easy to understand. HOI is decent. I have read the manual and played the tutorial. I have watched part of the Lets Play live stream (the one where the guy plays as France). The Lets Play didn't really seem to explain the game for a new player, so it was kind of above my head. I'm sure Paradox would like to expand the user base for its games, so I really wish they would provide a 'Getting Started' type of document to help players learn why they should do certain actions in the game.

So I started a game as a count in Ireland with one province.
1) My guy wasn't married so I got him a wife. Now I think the only criteria into picking a wife is: get her stat bonuses; get alliance with her dynasty, get possible presige boost depending on her title; if you need kids pick one young and fertile. I'm not sure about picking wives for members in my court. What does it matter? It makes them happy to have their need fullfilled. It doesn't seem like it would really matter who you marry them to since you probably don't really care about the stat bonuses.

2) I didn't have any threats listed, but I noticed that my county was coveted by a neighbor because my province was supposed to belong to his dutchy. So, I figured he was my main concern. I didn't have any casus belli against him to I set my council guy (chancellor?) to manufacture one. In the mean time I had my marshal train troops in my county so I would have a bigger army when it came time to fight.

3) I sent a gift and honorary title to one of my bishops so he would like me more then the Pope so he would send me his tax money.

4) I save up enough money so buy an improvement. I forgot which one I picked. I think it gave me more troops for my levy.

5) Finally got a manufactured claim and I pressed it. Occupied the province after I sieged all of the holdings and got counter attacked. I just barely lost that battle and he followed me, I just had enough money to buy some mercenaries and defeat him and I got peace and his county. This gave me 2 of the 3 counties required to create a duchy title. So I sped up time and saved the money and became a duke after making the title.

6) Got a message stating I would lose the title of the county once I died, so I changed the inheritence law away from gablekind (sp?) so my eldest son would get all titles. This made my other sons unhappy. I'm not sure if I should care or not. They weren't landed so I don't think they could attack me. I don't think they were ambitious so I don't think they would try to have me killed.

7) I actually would prefer my second oldest son to be the heir. My eldest son (the heir) was the spymaster he had high intrigue. I decided it wasn't good to try and have him killed. I suppose if I did it would be good to fire him from being sypmaster. So I sent him to steal tech from the Byzantines in hopes he would get caught. Maybe they would kill him and my second in line would become my hier.


Is this kind of how you play? Am I missing anything? I think there were some other things I did that I just don't remember right now. In any case, I felt like I was stumbling around and not feeling I had the info to understand my choices and options. Maybe I am getting it and it just isn't for me?

I think it would be really helpful for players new to the game (like me) if Paradox (or a generous community member) would but together a getting started that took someone step by step and explained the decisions the player made. Instead of just stating 'I chose a wife', state why that wife was chosen. If this could be done for many of the main decisions in the game I think it would go a long way to bring in new players and make Paradox money.

Sorry for somewhat of a rant. It just frustrates me that Paradox doesn't learn that this minor effort on their part would be worth it. To those who made it this far, thanks for listening.

 

[Cymsdale]

It sounds to me like you were making pretty good choices and justifications for your actions despite stumbling around. I agree that more direction few new players would be nice, but I don't think I'd like it to go so far as to tell me how I am 'supposed' to play and remove all the magic of figuring things out. Reading tooltips and learning how the gears work is part of the magic of Paradox games for me.

 

[BaptismbyFire]

So I started a game as a count in Ireland with one province.

1) My guy wasn't married so I got him a wife. Now I think the only criteria into picking a wife is: get her stat bonuses; get alliance with her dynasty, get possible presige boost depending on her title; if you need kids pick one young and fertile. I'm not sure about picking wives for members in my court. What does it matter? It makes them happy to have their need fullfilled. It doesn't seem like it would really matter who you marry them to since you probably don't really care about the stat bonuses.

My guess is for female members it doesn't really matter, since they go off to their husband's land anyway. But for male members, I think it does matter whom you marry them off too, since the traits of the child depends on those of the parents'. Since that child will likely stay in your court once he reaches adult age, you would want him to turn out well, so you can have a valuable member in the future.

I'm learning the system too, but I think you're doing a good job. I don't think you're doing anything terribly wrong, and if you are not having fun playing the game, maybe the game isn't for you. Personally, I think a great way to get into the game is to watch some documentaries and read some books on the time period, and try to immerse yourself in the medieval era.

As for me, I find the game fun in that you can't control everything and prepare for everything. Even if one of your court members seems to like you, you can never tell whether he might betray you or not someday. Every character has his own goal in the game, and it's the interaction/clash between their goals that makes the game fun. At times, it might seem like a mess, but it's also what makes it fun.

 

[Landwalker]

Sounds like you do have the basics down, and I'm sure with more experience you'll start drawing more or the nuance out of all the possible decisions and activities. I completely sympathize with where you're coming from, as CK1 was a game about as transparent as a brick wall, and it took me a long time to get a handle on it. That handle has definitely helped me with CK2, despite some of the changes that have been made.

If you have the time and inclination, take a look at my CK1 "Learning AAR" with the Duchy of Lombardy. It's short (because I bit off more than I could chew and got curbstomped by the emperor), but I try to do a lot of what you're asking as far as explaining my decision-making process. Even though it's for the older game, the similarities may help you out.

I fully intend to do something similar for CK2, but won't have the time (due to work) for a couple of months at least. The main reason I started doing those Learning AARs was because I felt in a similar boat as you, and decided to take my gaming "public" both to get feedback on how I was doing and to help others who felt the same way as I did (and as you do) by providing something of a worked example, with all the details, of how one might play the game. Until then, all I can suggest is reading my CK1 AAR and continuing to plug away, putting it all together mental piece by mental piece.

 

[MasterofMagic]

Thing is this isn't a game that runs on RAILS there's no particular specific path you must or should take. You make your own world and pretty much every decision is ok and right but the consequences are what the game is all about and how you deal with each an every one of them. You didn't do anything wrong, you actually made a story you just didn't present it as one as much as others would have. Kill your kids if you want and be a kinslayer and have all your relatives scared of you or plotting behind your back to have you assissinated like they did Caesar that's what it's all about. Also, don't bet on those other sons or family members not having ambitions as that is why ambitions are in the game. My steward for whatever reason decided she wanted my new born son dead and luckily I had my spymaster at home seeking out such plots. Think of this as the most detailed and ALIVE "THE SIMS" game in medieval times. It's a wonderful experience if/when you let your imagination go.

 

[zerothehero]

I agree. You are pretty much on the right track. The main difference between this and EUIII is that the roleplay side of CKII is much more involved. You really have to care about your court, family and alliances. If you take a disliking to somebody as you did, try and do something about it. Keep playing keep upping your ambitions and above all patience is the key to this game.
Even losing in this game is fun!

Edit: Read an AAR or two.

 

[raw]

In any case, I felt like I was stumbling around and not feeling I had the info to understand my choices and options.

Did the Kings and Dukes of medieval europe have that insight? No. Paradox games are highly unintuitive and that's exactly what makes them so interesting.

 

[DarkieBabZ]

Trial and Error is half the fun.

I don't think its hard to learn CK2, the manual and tooltip gives very good information, I convinced friends to buy CK2, since I also convinced them EU3 was a good game (they absolutely loved eu3) they have never played any other paradox game, but they knew the basics of this game right away and they have no problem playing and understanding stuff (sure some stuff is trial and error). my point here is. I think for most people the manual and tooltips (tooltips being important here) are more than enough.. its not like there is a certain way you have to play either, so well... its more like advice.

Judging from your post you don't have any problems with the basics either!

 

[maskeddingo]

Pretty much how I have been rolling with my first game after the Demo. A few differences though.

I started as count of dublin/heir Leiniester, and switched to the single inheritance option rather then gavelkind.

Started forging claims for other counties and grabbing them when I can, but avoided forming Dutchies as much as possible so I can keep as many counties in my control without pissing off other dukes, or having "to many duchies" penalties. After getting all of Ireland Ended up with Just two Dutchies, Connatch and Munster which as worked out well. Though a few counts are pissy about not having Dutchies, way easier to deal with a few counts then more powerful Dukes.

Marrying off 3rd and 4th brothers into matrilineal marriages or making them bishops to try and keep them from stepping on too many toes. I have had to imprison a few to keep them out of the way, but I just let them rot until they die.

So in my personal holdings I have been just getting all the upgrades that give taxes first, then just upgrading the crap out of Dublin/Leinester for more levies to make a few provinces as strong as possible for personal levies.

Started claiming chunks of Scotland with my 4th Ruler (A Queen, her father ruled for about 2 years before she assassinated him(he sucked anyway)) and married her off to the Duke of Munster(Who is her half-uncle I handed munster too after my previous king died) She has Connatch and Galloway as Dutchies and a pretty decent personal levi size(about 8k) from the upgraded castles. Keeping a small bankroll on hand to help buy mercs for the occasional invasion from England, but they have been pretty busy with revolts.

All in all having a blast, figure I will make lots of mistakes as I learn but that is half the fun.

 

[Captain Gars]

So I started a game as a count in Ireland with one province.

This is probably not a very good idea as a starting point. Playing a one province count is a big challenge, and if you don't really know what you're doing it might feel somewhat frustrating as not much tend to happen on its own. If you want to figure out the game mechanics as well as have plenty to do it's better to start as a powerful duke or as a king.

 

[JaguarUSF]

As suggested earlier, starting out as a one-province count limits the amount of things you can do. I would suggest a Duke in the HRE or France or England or the Byzantine Empire, or the King of a smaller nation like Denmark or Poland or Hungary. Then you will get bombarded by events and interesting things more often.

When your kids grow up, then things potentially become more interesting with interpersonal relationships. It looks like you're playing the game "right". Other suggestions include looking at plots/ambitions, using the diplomatic map mode to look for yellow provinces (those show places you have a valid cause for declaring war), varying up the usage of your council members, building things in your provinces when you can afford it, and gaining alliances through marriage with large nations (then you can fight in wars and gain prestige without having to lose land). The key, I think (especially without many plots and no missions), is to set small goals for yourself: conquer this province, get an alliance with these people, and so on.

Any other concerns?

 

[Acularius]

One, the Multiplayer was really stable.

So, I was essentially giving my friend I was gaming with tips on his starting play.
Generally though, once you get the idea, it flows amazingly well.

 

[Onedreamer]

So I started a game as a count in Ireland with one province.
1) My guy wasn't married so I got him a wife. Now I think the only criteria into picking a wife is: get her stat bonuses; get alliance with her dynasty, get possible presige boost depending on her title; if you need kids pick one young and fertile. I'm not sure about picking wives for members in my court. What does it matter? It makes them happy to have their need fullfilled. It doesn't seem like it would really matter who you marry them to since you probably don't really care about the stat bonuses.

Traits. They decide the relationships between two characters and it's important that your wife/husband gets along with you well. They are also important for tutoring children. If you send your children to a tutor that is apparently good (with stats) but a total sinner, you will most likely have a sinner heir and having too many sins can seriously hinder relationships.

Unlike what everyone else has said I think that starting with a one province count is the best thing to do. You will have time to learn a piece at a time and ponder on each decision. Starting with a Duke right away you will be more likely overwhelmed by new notions and options.

 

[robc04]

It sounds to me like you were making pretty good choices and justifications for your actions despite stumbling around. I agree that more direction few new players would be nice, but I don't think I'd like it to go so far as to tell me how I am 'supposed' to play and remove all the magic of figuring things out. Reading tooltips and learning how the gears work is part of the magic of Paradox games for me.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I want people to tell me what strategy to follow. I just want to understand the rules. For example, the consequences of choosing a wife or having unhappy sons. So then I can choose wehther I will let then be unhappy or if I should fix it. I'm not sure if I'm correct, but it seems like having unhappy sons who are not landed isn't much of a problem since they can't raise troops against you. I suppose they can try to have you assassinated. What influences the chance that they will try and assassinate you? I imagine having a bad opinion of you is right up there. I think if they are ambitious that plays a roll, but is there anything else? That is the type of stuff I want to understand so I can make informed decisions.

 

[robc04]

My guess is for female members it doesn't really matter, since they go off to their husband's land anyway. But for male members, I think it does matter whom you marry them off too, since the traits of the child depends on those of the parents'. Since that child will likely stay in your court once he reaches adult age, you would want him to turn out well, so you can have a valuable member in the future.

Ahh, ok. I didn't think about that. Since you are selecting people for your council and holdings from your court, you want to populate it with as many talented people as you can. What are the consequences of having people who don't like you in your court? Are these the people who may try and assassinate you, where people who don't like you in other courts wouldn't necessarily try to kill you?

 

[robc04]

If you have the time and inclination, take a look at my CK1 "Learning AAR" with the Duchy of Lombardy. It's short (because I bit off more than I could chew and got curbstomped by the emperor), but I try to do a lot of what you're asking as far as explaining my decision-making process. Even though it's for the older game, the similarities may help you out.

Will do, thanks.

 

[Harle]

I played as the independent Earl of Leinster, and it's going well. Three generations later I was King of Ireland, currently the tail-end of the fourth generation who won a defensive war against Scotland.

Playing as an independent count is tough. It's much slower going (usually) and you are basically at the whims of your neighbors. There's a lot more luck involved in playing this kind of game, as you have basically no room for error; if you screw up, you lose your only province and that's it. Game over. More than that, a lot of the gameplay mechanics revolve around having vassals to boss around and manage. As an earl you dsee maybe the tiniest tip of the iceburg with your mayors and bishops (and maybe barons).

If you really want to see the full breadth of gameplay but don't want to be overwhelmed, play a duchy in a large kingdom like France or the HRE. In my opinion vassal dukes are the most fun to play because you have vassals to push around but you also get to scheme against the king and there's room for advancement. If you play as the king you miss out on being the one scheming to lower crown authority or what have you.

 

[MasterofMagic]

This is probably not a very good idea as a starting point. Playing a one province count is a big challenge, and if you don't really know what you're doing it might feel somewhat frustrating as not much tend to happen on its own. If you want to figure out the game mechanics as well as have plenty to do it's better to start as a powerful duke or as a king.

I disagree because as a newbie I like to take my time and peruse the playing field and see what's going on. Unfortuntely the dang "fow on/off" cheat doesn't work in this game and makes it very hard to watch and see what is going on. I even tried "debug fow" and that didn't work. But, still I still like a one province start with a few vassals like GOTLAND of Sweden. Gives enough starting out to see what alls in the game pretty much and lets you play around with your council members in various ways and places. I've already got a few land grabs with my Chancellor. Found a couple of plots and building up my forces an wealth for an invasions to the east and south east.

I don't think having a new player start out with a very powerful duke is a good recommendation at all. Just because you and I know the mechanics and it appears it's so easy to understand and pickup it's not for most newbies. If you're going to help a newbie you have to think like a newbie. There's so many buttons and buttons on top of buttons and windows and windows on top of windows it's really an overwhelming game in that sense alone. Even I who am very familiar with CK1 was a bit overwhelmed with all the buttons and windows and new placements of things on the UI. Quite a lot to grasp and certainly can be daunting an overwhelming for a newbie.

 

[InnocentIII]

The advice I'd give is this - stumbling around is how you learn. Frankly, Duke of Connacht or Duke of Meath (?) are the two Irish Dukes in 1066 and they're both very playable. You have no real worries until the English show up in a century or so. By then you can probably fight them off. But you learn by doing.

OTOH I'd like a strategy guide as well, though the gameplay AARs work as guides.

 

[Harle]

I disagree because as a newbie I like to take my time and peruse the playing field and see what's going on. Unfortuntely the dang "fow on/off" cheat doesn't work in this game and makes it very hard to watch and see what is going on. I even tried "debug fow" and that didn't work. But, still I still like a one province start with a few vassals like GOTLAND of Sweden. Gives enough starting out to see what alls in the game pretty much and lets you play around with your council members in various ways and places. I've already got a few land grabs with my Chancellor. Found a couple of plots and building up my forces an wealth for an invasions to the east and south east.

I couldn't agree more. This is actually what made it extremely hard for me to get into the HoI series (I did manage with HoI2), the amount of stuff going on when you start the game can be overwhelming. I like to start small and build up so that I can learn as I go and really know and understand every little detail of my eventual, glorious empire. Having to worry about so many things right off the bat is extremely intimidating, and even if a king has a margin for error in that screwing up doesn't automatically mean game over, it's often hard to tell when and how you are making mistakes. As an independent count, there's so much less ambient noise that you can focus on learning the ropes.