My King of Scotland is heir to the Duchy of Bavaria

[jsnouffer]

I'm playing through my first CKII game, so I'm a complete noob. My character is King of Scotland and is set to inherit the Duchy of Bavaria from his mother. I assume the HRE will become my liege. What happens to the status of Scotland? Does it become part of the HRE, or will the HRE declare war on me to ensure Bavaria doesn't pass out of his realm? I currently own all the counties in de jure Scotland, so I was wondering if I should destroy the King title, before my mother dies, and just hold all the ducal titles

 

[Tirunus]

You stay independent, the HRE loses Bavaria once you inherit from your mother.

 

[jsnouffer]

You stay independent, the HRE loses Bavaria once you inherit from your mother.

Thanks Tirunus. If I did destroy the King of Scotland title (I assume it is possible to do so, I never tried), would I then become part of the HRE? I'm just wondering if there would be any advantage in the long run, in joining the HRE.

 

[DC123456789]

Thanks Tirunus. If I did destroy the King of Scotland title (I assume it is possible to do so, I never tried), would I then become part of the HRE? I'm just wondering if there would be any advantage in the long run, in joining the HRE.

You wouldn't. An independent realm will stay independent if it inherits something within another realm. However, if you were the Duke of Bavaria inheriting Scotland, then you would stay a vassal, since you're already his vassal. And you can't destroy your primary title (I assume you're not king of anywhere else, so you can't destroy Scotland).

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Perfect alliance of Scotch and beer. ;-) Which actually would be thinkable in a dynasty driven word today, the Head of the House of Wittelsbach is the accepted Stuart ruler of Jakobites too, if we still had monarchies and the Stuarts hadnt been taken down.

 

[wormyguy]

You wouldn't. An independent realm will stay independent if it inherits something within another realm. However, if you were the Duke of Bavaria inheriting Scotland, then you would stay a vassal, since you're already his vassal. And you can't destroy your primary title (I assume you're not king of anywhere else, so you can't destroy Scotland).

What about if a vassal of (say) the King of England inherits the Kingdom of Scotland? Would they then become independent, since kings can't have king-tier vassals?

 

[DC123456789]

What about if a vassal of (say) the King of England inherits the Kingdom of Scotland? Would they then become independent?

Yes, because a king can't have another king as a vassal (unless England has Absolute Crown Authority- in which case I think Scotland will be inherited by the next in line, because vassals can't leave the realm through inheritance).

 

[Wezqu]

What about if a vassal of (say) the King of England inherits the Kingdom of Scotland? Would they then become independent, since kings can't have king-tier vassals?

Yes they would become independent as if the inherited title is same tier or higher the character becomes independent if the inherited title is higher or same level than that of the top liege. So if you are a count under a duke whose under a king and you inherite a dukedom you become direct vassal of the king and not become independent.

 

[tnick0225]

Don't be surprised if the HRE declares war on you though, since Bavaria is de jure Imperial lands. So they will slowly chip away one county at a time till they retake it all back. Unless of course you form an alliance with the Kaiser or thy're too busy dealing with domestic issues

 

[NewbieOne]

You wouldn't. An independent realm will stay independent if it inherits something within another realm. However, if you were the Duke of Bavaria inheriting Scotland, then you would stay a vassal, since you're already his vassal. And you can't destroy your primary title (I assume you're not king of anywhere else, so you can't destroy Scotland).

I think you take your existing titles away with you if you inherit something higher. For example, I once had a vassal count who went independent when he inherited an independent duchy, even though I was king, so I had enough rank for him to remain my vassal. This is different from when you push a vassal's claim to a higher title, e.g. if you push a baron's claim to a duchy as a king, he will stay your vassal as he was before.

Don't be surprised if the HRE declares war on you though, since Bavaria is de jure Imperial lands. So they will slowly chip away one county at a time till they retake it all back. Unless of course you form an alliance with the Kaiser or thy're too busy dealing with domestic issues

If I recall correctly, the ex-liege may be getting normal claims when titles are inherited off his realm. A while ago I gave a kinsman a barony when he was heir to a barony in a different realm and when he got that other barony, the other king had a strong pressed claim. Can't exclude him managing to be in the line of succession as 2nd or 3rd in virtue of being the liege and after the blood heirs.

 

[Mutineer]

Yee, and you may not even inherite duchy. If Hre raised there crown autority hight enogth you suddenly will find that you are discvolified.

 

[tnick0225]

If I recall correctly, the ex-liege may be getting normal claims when titles are inherited off his realm. A while ago I gave a kinsman a barony when he was heir to a barony in a different realm and when he got that other barony, the other king had a strong pressed claim. Can't exclude him managing to be in the line of succession as 2nd or 3rd in virtue of being the liege and after the blood heirs.

Yeah good point I couldn't remember if that was the case or not. And the bad thing about it, is since its de jure HRE even if the Kaiser or his heirs don't press the claim there will always be that wonderful de jure claim.

I think if that happened to me playing in scotland I'd just grant Bavaria to a distant relative of my dynasty and transfer him over to the Kaiser just so I wouldn't have to put up with the futile attempt of defending it.

 

[crimson_king]

Perfect alliance of Scotch and beer. ;-)

Now, all he needs to do is inherit the Duchy of Bourbon, and he's set for life.