My Idea For Fixing Espionage Idea Group

[cloudwasher]

Change Idea 3 from allowing sabotage reputation to 'Foreign Defectors' that gives +0.50 Army and Navy Tradition from convincing foreign officers to defect to your nation

Change Idea 5 from -33% covert relation impact to 'Agents Abroad' that gives -5% technology cost. Change it from idea 5 to idea 6.

Previous Idea 6 (May Sow Discontent) in addition to allowing sowing discontent, also grants knowledge of dealing with subversives at home and grants -1 national unrest. Moved to Idea 5.

Keep everything else the same.

My new group would be this:
Idea 1 +25% Embargo Efficiency +33% Privateer Efficiency
Idea 2 +25% National Spy Defense
Idea 3 +0.5 Army and Navy yearly tradition
Idea 4 +1 Diplomat, +25% spy offense
Idea 5 May sow dissent, -1 national unrest
Idea 6 -5% tech cost
Idea 7 May infiltrate administration
Bonus +50% rebel support efficiency

This would give a more balanced idea group that is useful and people would actually choose in my humble opinion.

What do you guys think?

 

[Salje]

Eh, ideas themselves sound good, but at the same time a tad too powerful for the diplo group.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

I've been always saying that the best way to deal with espionage ideas would be getting rid of them. All those options like sow discontent or sabotage reputation should be unlocked with next diplomatic technologies, exactly as the devs have dealt with forced march. Your ideas overall aren't too bad though, especially since they include cheaper tech cost.

 

[Dutchman251]

But you have to choose. Either you get rid of the idea group, or you make it more powerful (though I think the main problem is you can't measure the effects of what you do). This is something that basically makes it Innovation 2.0

 

[grommile]

The problem with Espionage is that not only is it of questionable utility, it's competing with Diplomatic and Influence.

 

[saegoto]

I give sobatage reputation and sow discontent to everyone in my MP mod

it requiers 10 dip level. other side can counter it by reaching stab +3.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Assasinate ruler/heir of a country.

 

[grommile]

Assasinate ruler/heir of a country.

It's not clear that such an option can be added without being either unacceptably powerful, or too risky to ever use.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

It's not clear that such an option can be added without being either unacceptably powerful, or too risky to ever use.

You can only do it every 10 years, 80% chance of failing, if fails, -100 relations with target nation.

 

[grommile]

You can only do it every 10 years, 80% chance of failing, if fails, -100 relations with target nation.

Thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly.

If fails, 50% chance that the diplomat dies, and you have to train a new one, which takes 5 years.

 

[grommile]

If fails, 50% chance that the diplomat dies, and you have to train a new one, which takes 5 years.

Which is very firmly in "too risky to use" territory.

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Which is very firmly in "too risky to use" territory.

You have a chance to temporarily lose a diplomat because he got killed in the assasination attempt. We could also add spies, which you get like 3 of in Espionage, with 1 base.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

You have a chance to temporarily lose a diplomat because he got killed in the assasination attempt. We could also add spies, which you get like 3 of in Espionage, with 1 base.

While I think the rest of your idea is too risky, I am all for the spies. Then we could do all the dirty actions without using a diplomat.

 

[SilasW]

The problem is that the problem with espionage ideas isn't the ideas, it's espionage itself.

Espionage as a game mechanic suffer from a myriad of problems, the big ones being: Being locked behind an idea group and a diplomatic one at that, having limited effect on the lucky nations that you're liable to be fighting the most, a massive lack of information when you do support rebels, a lack of particularly interesting or powerful mechanics due to the fact that all espionage abilities lack any real risk v reward factor.