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ChaChaLoco

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Going to be somewhat vague as I'm not a coder, and just list general features I'd like to see added or expanded upon.

ESPIONAGE SYSTEM

Political espionage:
  • Overhaul to how you may influence the politics of other nations.
    • Perhaps introduction of a point-system whereby larger more powerful nations get more espionage points and thereby can more easily influence smaller nations or prevent themselves being influenced (similar to HoI3 Leadership but just for Espionage).
    • Staging coups would clearly be overhauled alongside this, but not sure on how specifically.
  • Perhaps also the ability to attempt to assassinate ministers, generals or leaders (should be quite difficult to do).
    • There would need to be an overhaul to the depth of the political system for this to be viable, whereby ministers are more dynamic and gain/lose experience based on their traits and proficiency in their assigned role.
  • Sabotage of a countries relations with other countries or entire factions.
  • Ability to support local partisans or resistance leaders.
Military espionage:
  • Sabotage of production lines.
  • Sabotage of chain of command (reduces division organisation, or air mission efficiency, etc.).
  • Sabotage supply trains: disrupts efficient flow of logistics.
    • Not totally sure how this could work, might require an overhaul of the supply system.
  • Ability to discover enemy military plans/objectives, troop locations/movements.
Counter-espionage:
  • Ability to counter-act spies operating in your own country.
  • Ability to counter-act spies disrupting your activities in another country.
  • Ability to spread false intelligence regarding military plans.
General espionage:
  • Ability to steal research or get a boost towards it based on stolen plans.
  • Ability to hamper research speed on a particular technology for the other nation.
ECONOMICS
  • Introduction of money/currency.
  • Money is used to purchase resources.
  • Money is used to purchase production licences or actual equipment from other nations.
  • Money is used to fund the war effort (maintenance, upkeep, etc.).
  • Money could be used for espionage.
  • Money could be used for technology/research.
  • Money could be used for internal politics.
  • Money available to a nation does not have to be a super complex system, it could be based on civilian factories and trading partners, e.g. civilian factories could generate money every hour, more CIC, more money.
    • This could be integrated with the economy laws: War Economy and Total Economic Mobilisation reduce division upkeep lots but also reduce the money your CIC generate. Whereas Civilian Economy increases division upkeep a lot, but drastically improves the money your CIC generate. Thus giving players/AI an incentive to gear down once war is over.
  • There is lots of scope here to be creative!
DIPLOMACY
  • World Tension system is far too general, the threat system from HoI3 made more sense. Brain-storm some ways on improving on that system, or other ways of overhauling world tension.
  • Some problems with world tension that need resolution:
    • It is too global.
    • Once it goes up, it doesn't come down (even if there is only one Faction left in the entire world, or even if one country conquers the entire world).
  • The AI declares wars to make use of claims even if it is non-sensical to do so, e.g. a beaten Germany declaring war again after having just lost the war.
    • Maybe implement a war-exhaustion system: once you lose a war, you can't declare war for a significant amount of time (10 years?).
      • This wouldn't apply to White Peace.
  • Overhaul peace-deal system, certain AI should be more willing to strike peace deals shy of total capitulation.
    • Needs to be nuanced, some nations would never surrender short of total capitulation, e.g. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union.
FUEL
  • All equipment that historically would've used fuel should use fuel in-game, and be stranded/surfaced/slowed down if it runs out of fuel.
    • No more Polish submarines in the Baltic cut off from supply but never surfaced/defeated.
    • No more being able to drive Panzers to Moscow despite being in an oil deficit.
PROVINCES
  • Provinces should be the base unit of operation for the map in-game.
  • Everything should be built on a province level (infrastructure, nuclear reactors, rocket sites, oil refineries, air bases, radar stations) like some already are (forts, coastal forts, naval bases).
    • Shift+LMB builds one level in every province in a State.
    • Re-balance cost of building accordingly.
  • This will tie in later to weather overhaul and air-overhaul.
  • Bring back province cards and name every province.
WEATHER SYSTEM
  • Weather should be calculated on a province-by-province basis.
  • The province card should list the province name, terrain, weather, temperature, wind strength/direction, and presence of mud or other relevant seasonal hazards.
AIR SYSTEM
  • Air-wings should travel through provinces on the map towards their target locations, and can be intercepted, shot down, and fired upon by AA on the way.
  • Remove air-zones entirely.
  • Missions parameters are determined by 'painting' the provinces on the map you want the mission to operate over.
    • RMB+drag for quick painting (Paint-By-Province; PBP).
    • Shift+RMB to paint every province in a single state at once, can also drag the mouse to paint (Paint-by-State; PBS).
    • Ctrl+RMB to paint every enemy province in range of the air base your air-wing is currently based at (Paint-All-Provinces; PAP).
  • Certain missions have more options within, e.g. strategic bombing but you can exclude land forts as being targets, or infrastructure, etc.
    • Not guaranteed to always hit designated targets, will depend on mission efficiency, recon, accuracy and luck.
ORDER OF BATTLE
  • Field Marshals lead Theaters.
  • Generals lead Army Groups and Armies.
  • Theaters can have an unlimited amount of Army Groups or Armies attached.
  • Army Groups can have up to 5 Armies attached.
  • Armies otherwise act as they do now.
  • Implement some basic trickle-down effects for the order of battle from Theater > Army Group > Army.
EXPERIENCE
  • It should be possible to accrue air and naval experience prior to war by exercising fleets and air wings.
  • Army experience should not be required to edit division templates, which would allow players more scope to utilise variants.
VARIANTS
  • It should be possible to make variants of every piece of equipment, e.g. trucks, small arms, etc.
  • I would like every nation to start off with their default tech having different starting strengths of tech, which can then be compounded upon or made up for by using variants.
    • E.g. Soviet tanks by default have better armour than German tanks, but the Germans can expend Army Experience to create variants of their base tanks which have better Armour to match or beat the Soviets. The system doesn't have to be super historically accurate, but it would be nice to have a bit of variety between how nations play rather than the game acting as if a Sherman, T-34 and Panzer IV are all the same.
NAVAL SYSTEM
  • Re-introduction of transport ships and landing craft.
  • Dynamic trade routes that can change as per the players request or automatically to be more efficient/avoid convoy raiding.
  • Introduction of coastal artillery which can be built on coastlines and will damage ships that come within range.
    • Maybe these should be unique buildings that can only be built near straits: Suez Canal, Panama Canal, Baltic strait, Gibraltar - thus making getting into/out of these straits/canals very hazardous for surface ships.
  • Again, sea-tiles should be on a province level and ships should travel through them as such (even when patrolling the region on a mission).
DIVISION NAMES
  • All divisions should have an official designation, e.g. '1st Infantry Division' for a US Infantry Division. This is what the names will be ordered by when you select these divisions.
  • But they should also have a nickname which is generated (but can be changed) from a pool of nicknames for that nation and displays under the official designation, e.g. 'Big Red One' for the '1st Infantry Division'.
Tired now, will add more later. These are just wish-list things I want to see or that I think should've been the case in vanilla. I hope all of this and more gets added as soon as possible, I doubt much of it will. Curious as to the thoughts of others too.
 
Last edited:

scroggin

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Going to be somewhat vague as I'm not a coder, and just list general features I'd like to see added or expanded upon.

ESPIONAGE SYSTEM

Political espionage:
  • Overhaul to how you may influence the politics of other nations.
    • Perhaps introduction of a point-system whereby larger more powerful nations get more espionage points and thereby can more easily influence smaller nations or prevent themselves being influenced (similar to HoI3 Leadership but just for Espionage).
    • Staging coups would clearly be overhauled alongside this, but not sure on how specifically.
  • Perhaps also the ability to attempt to assassinate ministers, generals or leaders (should be quite difficult to do).
    • There would need to be an overhaul to the depth of the political system for this to be viable, whereby ministers are more dynamic and gain/lose experience based on their traits and proficiency in their assigned role.
  • Sabotage of a countries relations with other countries or entire factions.
  • Ability to support local partisans or resistance leaders.
Military espionage:
  • Sabotage of production lines.
  • Sabotage of chain of command (reduces division organisation, or air mission efficiency, etc.).
  • Sabotage supply trains: disrupts efficient flow of logistics.
    • Not totally sure how this could work, might require an overhaul of the supply system.
  • Ability to discover enemy military plans/objectives, troop locations/movements.
Counter-espionage:
  • Ability to counter-act spies operating in your own country.
  • Ability to counter-act spies disrupting your activities in another country.
  • Ability to spread false intelligence regarding military plans.
General espionage:
  • Ability to steal research or get a boost towards it based on stolen plans.
  • Ability to hamper research speed on a particular technology for the other nation.
ECONOMICS
  • Introduction of money/currency.
  • Money is used to purchase resources.
  • Money is used to purchase production licences or actual equipment from other nations.
  • Money is used to fund the war effort (maintenance, upkeep, etc.).
  • Money available to a nation does not have to be a super complex system, it could be based on civilian factories and trading partners (going to leave this vague on purpose).
DIPLOMACY
  • World Tension system is far too general, the threat system from HoI3 made more sense. Brain-storm some ways on improving on that system, or other ways of overhauling world tension.
  • Some problems with world tension that need resolution:
    • It is too global.
    • Once it goes up, it doesn't come down (even if there is only one Faction left in the entire world, or even if one country conquers the entire world).
  • The AI declares wars to make use of claims even if it is non-sensical to do so, e.g. a beaten Germany declaring war again after having just lost the war.
    • Maybe implement a war-exhaustion system: once you lose a war, you can't declare war for a significant amount of time (10 years?).
      • This wouldn't apply to White Peace.
  • Overhaul peace-deal system, certain AI should be more willing to strike peace deals shy of total capitulation.
    • Needs to be nuanced, some nations would never surrender, e.g. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union.
FUEL
  • All equipment that historically would've used fuel should use fuel in-game, and be stranded/surfaced/slowed down if it runs out of fuel.
    • No more Polish submarines in the Baltic cut off from supply but never surfaced/defeated.
    • No more being able to drive Panzer's to Moscow despite being in an oil deficit.
PROVINCES
  • Provinces should be the base unit of operation for the map in-game.
  • Everything should be built on a province level (infrastructure, nuclear reactors, rocket sites, oil refineries, air bases, radar stations) like some already are (forts, coastal forts, naval bases).
    • Shift+LMB builds one level in every province in a State.
    • Re-balance cost of building accordingly.
  • This will tie in later to weather overhaul and air-overhaul.
  • Bring back province cards and name every province.
WEATHER SYSTEM
  • Weather should be calculated on a province-by-province basis.
  • The province card should list the province name, terrain, weather, temperature, wind strength/direction, and presence of mud or other relevant seasonal hazards.
AIR SYSTEM
  • Air-wings should travel through provinces on the map towards their target locations, and can be intercepted, shot down, and fired upon by AA on the way.
  • Remove air-zones entirely.
  • Missions parameters are determined by 'painting' the provinces on the map you want the mission to operate over.
    • RMB+drag for quick painting.
    • Shift+RMB to paint every province in a single state.
    • Ctrl+RMB to paint every enemy province in range of the air base your air-wing is currently based at.
  • Certain missions have more options within, e.g. strategic bombing but you can exclude land forts as being targets, or infrastructure, etc.
    • Not guaranteed to always hit designated targets, will depend on mission efficiency, recon, accuracy and luck.
ORDER OF BATTLE
  • Field Marshals lead Theaters.
  • Generals lead Army Groups and Armies.
  • Theaters can have an unlimited amount of Army Groups or Armies attached.
  • Army Groups can have up to 5 Armies attached.
  • Armies otherwise act as they do now.
  • Implement some basic trickle-down effects for the order of battle from Theater > Army Group > Army.
EXPERIENCE
  • It should be possible to accrue air and naval experience prior to war by exercising fleets and air wings.
  • Army experience should not be required to edit division templates, which would allow players more scope to utilise variants.
VARIANTS
  • It should be possible to make variants of every piece of equipment, e.g. trucks, small arms, etc.
  • I would like every nation to start off with their default tech having different starting strengths of tech, which can then be compounded upon or made up for by using variants.
    • E.g. Soviet tanks by default have better armour than German tanks, but the Germans can expend Army Experience to create variants of their base tanks which have better Armour to match or beat the Soviets. The system doesn't have to be super historically accurate, but it would be nice to have a bit of variety between how nations play rather than the game acting as if a Sherman, T-34 and Panzer IV are all the same.
NAVAL SYSTEM
  • Re-introduction of transport ships.
  • Dynamic trade routes that can change as per the players request or automatically to be more efficient/avoid convoy raiding.
  • Introduction of coastal artillery which can be built on coastlines and will damage ships that come within range.
  • Again, sea-tiles should be on a province level and ships should travel through them as such (even when patrolling the region on a mission).

Tired now, will add more later. These are just wish-list things I want to see or that I think should've been the case in vanilla. I hope all of this and more gets added as soon as possible, I doubt much of it will. Curious as to the thoughts of others too.
Its hard to agree with everything when you have such a large number of suggestions but I agree with most of it.
 

Duke_Dave

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elektrizikekswerk

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What do you disagree with?
Of course I cannot speak for @scroggin but I disagree on those points:
1. Economic: I think money is not needed. So the whole section is imo not interesting. Esp. if the money is based in CIC (as in your proposal) and you then use that money to do all the things you do now with CIC (and MIC for upkeep).
2. Building per province: I'm fine with the current abstraction of factories being "somewhere" in the state. On infrastructure I agree. I'd like to have the supply system of HoI III back. Including the supply lag.
3. Air system: CAS and other ground support wings should be attached to a battle plan/defensive line. Everything else is ok as it is, imo. They already started to make some air zones smaller. If this results in all air zones being more or less equal in size, im fine. State-level with your "painting" idea would be fine, too. Province level is too detailed/tedious/micro.
4. Naval system: I think by "transport ships" you mean "landing craft", since I don't see how a transport ship is any different from the current convoys...
 

yess

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I would say I disagree with almost everything ☺️
Most of the stuff you want to implement would turn this game into a micro intensive "click party".

I want an espoinage system.

The economic system you suggest is just a more complicated game mechanic that does not add anything new to the game. (if you call civilian factory "money" the current game mechanics are exactly as those you suggest)

World tension system can be tweaked, especially to punish those who increase the world tension. If the soviets are aggressive the allies should not be allowed to declare war on a carefull germany player.

Fuel system is not something I care about. It just introduces more micro to manually start and stop naval and air missions and makes the ai worse. You cant drive to moscow with a tank without supplies because it moves at 1kph with no org.

Province and air changes will just introduce more micro without adding anything. I would rather attach my planes to an army and let the ai use those planes to support my army. For me this game is about running the country and decidi g that my eastern front should have 15000 planes, not commanding 10 planes to support those 2000 men in that battle by that farm.

Order of battle, experience and variants I mostly agree with you.

Naval I agree with trade routes, but disagree with the rest of your points. I like the way the game handles naval invasions without transports(but should be tweaked)
More provinces, more boring micro.
Coastal artillery makes no sense, no ships will ever get that close to land without intending to naval invade. Coastal artillery protects against naval invasions like it does in the game right now.
 

elektrizikekswerk

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Coastal artillery makes no sense, no ships will ever get that close to land without intending to naval invade.
British Channel. And I think there are other straits where that would make sense. But yes, for the most parts of the world you're right.
 

mabus81

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Going to be somewhat vague as I'm not a coder, and just list general features I'd like to see added or expanded upon.

ESPIONAGE SYSTEM

Political espionage:
  • Overhaul to how you may influence the politics of other nations.
    • Perhaps introduction of a point-system whereby larger more powerful nations get more espionage points and thereby can more easily influence smaller nations or prevent themselves being influenced (similar to HoI3 Leadership but just for Espionage).
    • Staging coups would clearly be overhauled alongside this, but not sure on how specifically.
  • Perhaps also the ability to attempt to assassinate ministers, generals or leaders (should be quite difficult to do).
    • There would need to be an overhaul to the depth of the political system for this to be viable, whereby ministers are more dynamic and gain/lose experience based on their traits and proficiency in their assigned role.
  • Sabotage of a countries relations with other countries or entire factions.
  • Ability to support local partisans or resistance leaders.
Military espionage:
  • Sabotage of production lines.
  • Sabotage of chain of command (reduces division organisation, or air mission efficiency, etc.).
  • Sabotage supply trains: disrupts efficient flow of logistics.
    • Not totally sure how this could work, might require an overhaul of the supply system.
  • Ability to discover enemy military plans/objectives, troop locations/movements.
Counter-espionage:
  • Ability to counter-act spies operating in your own country.
  • Ability to counter-act spies disrupting your activities in another country.
  • Ability to spread false intelligence regarding military plans.
General espionage:
  • Ability to steal research or get a boost towards it based on stolen plans.
  • Ability to hamper research speed on a particular technology for the other nation.
ECONOMICS
  • Introduction of money/currency.
  • Money is used to purchase resources.
  • Money is used to purchase production licences or actual equipment from other nations.
  • Money is used to fund the war effort (maintenance, upkeep, etc.).
  • Money available to a nation does not have to be a super complex system, it could be based on civilian factories and trading partners (going to leave this vague on purpose).
DIPLOMACY
  • World Tension system is far too general, the threat system from HoI3 made more sense. Brain-storm some ways on improving on that system, or other ways of overhauling world tension.
  • Some problems with world tension that need resolution:
    • It is too global.
    • Once it goes up, it doesn't come down (even if there is only one Faction left in the entire world, or even if one country conquers the entire world).
  • The AI declares wars to make use of claims even if it is non-sensical to do so, e.g. a beaten Germany declaring war again after having just lost the war.
    • Maybe implement a war-exhaustion system: once you lose a war, you can't declare war for a significant amount of time (10 years?).
      • This wouldn't apply to White Peace.
  • Overhaul peace-deal system, certain AI should be more willing to strike peace deals shy of total capitulation.
    • Needs to be nuanced, some nations would never surrender, e.g. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union.
FUEL
  • All equipment that historically would've used fuel should use fuel in-game, and be stranded/surfaced/slowed down if it runs out of fuel.
    • No more Polish submarines in the Baltic cut off from supply but never surfaced/defeated.
    • No more being able to drive Panzer's to Moscow despite being in an oil deficit.
PROVINCES
  • Provinces should be the base unit of operation for the map in-game.
  • Everything should be built on a province level (infrastructure, nuclear reactors, rocket sites, oil refineries, air bases, radar stations) like some already are (forts, coastal forts, naval bases).
    • Shift+LMB builds one level in every province in a State.
    • Re-balance cost of building accordingly.
  • This will tie in later to weather overhaul and air-overhaul.
  • Bring back province cards and name every province.
WEATHER SYSTEM
  • Weather should be calculated on a province-by-province basis.
  • The province card should list the province name, terrain, weather, temperature, wind strength/direction, and presence of mud or other relevant seasonal hazards.
AIR SYSTEM
  • Air-wings should travel through provinces on the map towards their target locations, and can be intercepted, shot down, and fired upon by AA on the way.
  • Remove air-zones entirely.
  • Missions parameters are determined by 'painting' the provinces on the map you want the mission to operate over.
    • RMB+drag for quick painting.
    • Shift+RMB to paint every province in a single state.
    • Ctrl+RMB to paint every enemy province in range of the air base your air-wing is currently based at.
  • Certain missions have more options within, e.g. strategic bombing but you can exclude land forts as being targets, or infrastructure, etc.
    • Not guaranteed to always hit designated targets, will depend on mission efficiency, recon, accuracy and luck.
ORDER OF BATTLE
  • Field Marshals lead Theaters.
  • Generals lead Army Groups and Armies.
  • Theaters can have an unlimited amount of Army Groups or Armies attached.
  • Army Groups can have up to 5 Armies attached.
  • Armies otherwise act as they do now.
  • Implement some basic trickle-down effects for the order of battle from Theater > Army Group > Army.
EXPERIENCE
  • It should be possible to accrue air and naval experience prior to war by exercising fleets and air wings.
  • Army experience should not be required to edit division templates, which would allow players more scope to utilise variants.
VARIANTS
  • It should be possible to make variants of every piece of equipment, e.g. trucks, small arms, etc.
  • I would like every nation to start off with their default tech having different starting strengths of tech, which can then be compounded upon or made up for by using variants.
    • E.g. Soviet tanks by default have better armour than German tanks, but the Germans can expend Army Experience to create variants of their base tanks which have better Armour to match or beat the Soviets. The system doesn't have to be super historically accurate, but it would be nice to have a bit of variety between how nations play rather than the game acting as if a Sherman, T-34 and Panzer IV are all the same.
NAVAL SYSTEM
  • Re-introduction of transport ships.
  • Dynamic trade routes that can change as per the players request or automatically to be more efficient/avoid convoy raiding.
  • Introduction of coastal artillery which can be built on coastlines and will damage ships that come within range.
  • Again, sea-tiles should be on a province level and ships should travel through them as such (even when patrolling the region on a mission).

Tired now, will add more later. These are just wish-list things I want to see or that I think should've been the case in vanilla. I hope all of this and more gets added as soon as possible, I doubt much of it will. Curious as to the thoughts of others too.

Or in short: make HOI4 HOI2 again. No thanks, we've already been there, I can play HOI2 anytime I want already now.
 

yess

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British Channel. And I think there are other straits where that would make sense. But yes, for the most parts of the world you're right.

At its shortest the brithish channel is 33km across. I think they might score a hit at that range, but not a sure thing at all. So even the brithish channel should be safe ish against coastal bombardement.
Other straights are regulated (ships cant pass through them when at war)
 

Emren

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At its shortest the brithish channel is 33km across. I think they might score a hit at that range, but not a sure thing at all. So even the brithish channel should be safe ish against coastal bombardement.
Other straights are regulated (ships cant pass through them when at war)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanstholm_fortress and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristiansand_Cannon_Museum. These two fortresses together covered about 110 km of the Skagerrak strait (55km on from either side), with the remaining around 20 km covered by mines. Operationally, they would most likely have used spotting planes to direct artillery.
 

Pyro157

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As it's probable that Pdx will choose to focus on China (and maybe the other Asian countries too) for the next DLC, I'd like to see unique sprites for the warlords, China and the PRC. I made a thread in Suggestions if anyone's interested.

Also, Pdx should really take a look of the Road to '56's China National Focus mod. It's really good, and I hope the DLC will be similar. For example, the Nationalists get to retreat to Taiwan (as they historically did) if they lose the civil war, and the PRC focus tree can let you have the goddamn Cultural Revolution occur in the late 40s/1950s.
 
Last edited:

yess

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See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanstholm_fortress and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristiansand_Cannon_Museum. These two fortresses together covered about 110 km of the Skagerrak strait (55km on from either side), with the remaining around 20 km covered by mines. Operationally, they would most likely have used spotting planes to direct artillery.

Looks like I was wrong here, thank you for correcting me ☺️ I was just guessing based on battleship fireing range and that it was only covered from one side of the channel (nazis only controlled france and not brithish side of channel) so it would be possible to build naval artillery (but not very practical) (would be hillarious if both sides of the channel built naval artillery and bombard the other sides naval artillery)
 

Gerar_doorlock

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Going to be somewhat vague as I'm not a coder, and just list general features I'd like to see added or expanded upon.

ESPIONAGE SYSTEM

Political espionage:
  • Overhaul to how you may influence the politics of other nations.
    • Perhaps introduction of a point-system whereby larger more powerful nations get more espionage points and thereby can more easily influence smaller nations or prevent themselves being influenced (similar to HoI3 Leadership but just for Espionage).
    • Staging coups would clearly be overhauled alongside this, but not sure on how specifically.
  • Perhaps also the ability to attempt to assassinate ministers, generals or leaders (should be quite difficult to do).
    • There would need to be an overhaul to the depth of the political system for this to be viable, whereby ministers are more dynamic and gain/lose experience based on their traits and proficiency in their assigned role.
  • Sabotage of a countries relations with other countries or entire factions.
  • Ability to support local partisans or resistance leaders.
Military espionage:
  • Sabotage of production lines.
  • Sabotage of chain of command (reduces division organisation, or air mission efficiency, etc.).
  • Sabotage supply trains: disrupts efficient flow of logistics.
    • Not totally sure how this could work, might require an overhaul of the supply system.
  • Ability to discover enemy military plans/objectives, troop locations/movements.
Counter-espionage:
  • Ability to counter-act spies operating in your own country.
  • Ability to counter-act spies disrupting your activities in another country.
  • Ability to spread false intelligence regarding military plans.
General espionage:
  • Ability to steal research or get a boost towards it based on stolen plans.
  • Ability to hamper research speed on a particular technology for the other nation.
ECONOMICS
  • Introduction of money/currency.
  • Money is used to purchase resources.
  • Money is used to purchase production licences or actual equipment from other nations.
  • Money is used to fund the war effort (maintenance, upkeep, etc.).
  • Money available to a nation does not have to be a super complex system, it could be based on civilian factories and trading partners (going to leave this vague on purpose).
DIPLOMACY
  • World Tension system is far too general, the threat system from HoI3 made more sense. Brain-storm some ways on improving on that system, or other ways of overhauling world tension.
  • Some problems with world tension that need resolution:
    • It is too global.
    • Once it goes up, it doesn't come down (even if there is only one Faction left in the entire world, or even if one country conquers the entire world).
  • The AI declares wars to make use of claims even if it is non-sensical to do so, e.g. a beaten Germany declaring war again after having just lost the war.
    • Maybe implement a war-exhaustion system: once you lose a war, you can't declare war for a significant amount of time (10 years?).
      • This wouldn't apply to White Peace.
  • Overhaul peace-deal system, certain AI should be more willing to strike peace deals shy of total capitulation.
    • Needs to be nuanced, some nations would never surrender, e.g. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union.
FUEL
  • All equipment that historically would've used fuel should use fuel in-game, and be stranded/surfaced/slowed down if it runs out of fuel.
    • No more Polish submarines in the Baltic cut off from supply but never surfaced/defeated.
    • No more being able to drive Panzer's to Moscow despite being in an oil deficit.
PROVINCES
  • Provinces should be the base unit of operation for the map in-game.
  • Everything should be built on a province level (infrastructure, nuclear reactors, rocket sites, oil refineries, air bases, radar stations) like some already are (forts, coastal forts, naval bases).
    • Shift+LMB builds one level in every province in a State.
    • Re-balance cost of building accordingly.
  • This will tie in later to weather overhaul and air-overhaul.
  • Bring back province cards and name every province.
WEATHER SYSTEM
  • Weather should be calculated on a province-by-province basis.
  • The province card should list the province name, terrain, weather, temperature, wind strength/direction, and presence of mud or other relevant seasonal hazards.
AIR SYSTEM
  • Air-wings should travel through provinces on the map towards their target locations, and can be intercepted, shot down, and fired upon by AA on the way.
  • Remove air-zones entirely.
  • Missions parameters are determined by 'painting' the provinces on the map you want the mission to operate over.
    • RMB+drag for quick painting.
    • Shift+RMB to paint every province in a single state.
    • Ctrl+RMB to paint every enemy province in range of the air base your air-wing is currently based at.
  • Certain missions have more options within, e.g. strategic bombing but you can exclude land forts as being targets, or infrastructure, etc.
    • Not guaranteed to always hit designated targets, will depend on mission efficiency, recon, accuracy and luck.
ORDER OF BATTLE
  • Field Marshals lead Theaters.
  • Generals lead Army Groups and Armies.
  • Theaters can have an unlimited amount of Army Groups or Armies attached.
  • Army Groups can have up to 5 Armies attached.
  • Armies otherwise act as they do now.
  • Implement some basic trickle-down effects for the order of battle from Theater > Army Group > Army.
EXPERIENCE
  • It should be possible to accrue air and naval experience prior to war by exercising fleets and air wings.
  • Army experience should not be required to edit division templates, which would allow players more scope to utilise variants.
VARIANTS
  • It should be possible to make variants of every piece of equipment, e.g. trucks, small arms, etc.
  • I would like every nation to start off with their default tech having different starting strengths of tech, which can then be compounded upon or made up for by using variants.
    • E.g. Soviet tanks by default have better armour than German tanks, but the Germans can expend Army Experience to create variants of their base tanks which have better Armour to match or beat the Soviets. The system doesn't have to be super historically accurate, but it would be nice to have a bit of variety between how nations play rather than the game acting as if a Sherman, T-34 and Panzer IV are all the same.
NAVAL SYSTEM
  • Re-introduction of transport ships.
  • Dynamic trade routes that can change as per the players request or automatically to be more efficient/avoid convoy raiding.
  • Introduction of coastal artillery which can be built on coastlines and will damage ships that come within range.
  • Again, sea-tiles should be on a province level and ships should travel through them as such (even when patrolling the region on a mission).

Tired now, will add more later. These are just wish-list things I want to see or that I think should've been the case in vanilla. I hope all of this and more gets added as soon as possible, I doubt much of it will. Curious as to the thoughts of others too.
It looks very overcomplicated and playing this in mp would be even worse than Bice. Now to be more precise :
1
going down to province lvl is not needed, making major cities a region (Berlin separate from Brandenburg) - that's maximum detalisation for construction
2
all countries have a chance of surrender (Soviets were about to surrender and would start negotiations if Moscow had fallen, Germany would start peace talks with allies if Hitler was killed)
3
air regions should stay, maybe become smaller
4
person should not be able to kill other countries' ministers, because otherwise 30 ministers for each position should be introduced
5
diversifying techs is good but doing it for every model is too time-consuming, I would suggest giving better bonuses to tank producers (Porsche, henschel..) while making them rather unique and double sided for each country ( either exchanging better stats for production cost or reliability or exchanging between stats ( armor or speed etc)) that's similar to creating variants but bonuses from companies should be bigger than from variants.

Minors should have worse bonuses all the way down to enabling pick of them by NF (after 2 research slot or focuses like home tank designs for dod ) or researching several techs (like in great war) or licensing and picking external companies (Porsche making tanks for Romanians for example).

In examples I only talked about tanks but same can be applied to aircrafts and ships.

6- my own suggestion :
Major Countries should have more specific bonuses, so it's not all about factories and resources but mentality, traditions and so on.
Example
UK should have something like "high qualified workers" from the beginning which grants factory output
Germany "Prussian military legacy" : more initiative, even more org and either better exp gain for generals or better starting lvl of them + some construction/factory output bonuses gained from industrial Nf (like "4 year plan" or high qualified workers)
Soviet union
"fight and work culture" less army training time but higher construction time
"unqualified workers" less factory output
"fear of being purged" -gained after great purge (-20% initiative or so)
Good bonuses will be gained through industrial focuses and focuses like rehabilitated military / positive heroism and so on
US should have something like "home of the assembly line" again factory output and so on

Basically I suggest more unique spirits for majors since they seem to be underlooked looking at those new NF

I support your wish to introduce more mechanics, but I don't want them to be all-micro and similar to previous game series like. I also disagree with your idea to make game as much detalised as possible. MP should stay interesting; for flavor and very detailed playthrough there are mods.
 

LoLiX22

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I also would like to add a point on your wish-list and I hope they read that and think about it.
Today I have encircled and completely cut off 800k US American soldiers with Germany in North Africa in multiplayer. I thought: Yes I have him!
Then he simply deleted his entire army and got all of his manpower and his equipment back in his pool. I mean whaaaat?!
1st: Why is that possible?
2nd: I would think about a restriction that you can only delete troops on your own territory, maybe another 2nd restriction that they must have full organization to prevent people deleting their fully cut off army which is unrealistic and really annoying.
3rd: Maybe you could add a function that units can only be deleted where they have been deployed? To prevent people from deleting their army when it gets encircled on their own soil..?
4th: If you are not able to add such a function could you not add that the equipment and manpower needs to be shipped with convois from e.g. Africa (where you delete your army) back to the United States? So that people can intercept the convoys and sink the equipment and manpower?

I think it's really unfair. I have lost 1.5 Million men in this war and the USA only 250k because they made it to save their entire army with this unrealistc and annoying tactic....

Greetings

(I'm sorry if this might be a post that would belong to another topic)
 

ChaChaLoco

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Of course I cannot speak for @scroggin but I disagree on those points:
1. Economic: I think money is not needed. So the whole section is imo not interesting. Esp. if the money is based in CIC (as in your proposal) and you then use that money to do all the things you do now with CIC (and MIC for upkeep).
2. Building per province: I'm fine with the current abstraction of factories being "somewhere" in the state. On infrastructure I agree. I'd like to have the supply system of HoI III back. Including the supply lag.
3. Air system: CAS and other ground support wings should be attached to a battle plan/defensive line. Everything else is ok as it is, imo. They already started to make some air zones smaller. If this results in all air zones being more or less equal in size, im fine. State-level with your "painting" idea would be fine, too. Province level is too detailed/tedious/micro.
4. Naval system: I think by "transport ships" you mean "landing craft", since I don't see how a transport ship is any different from the current convoys...

1. I have to disagree, the wheels of war are greased with money. Money makes the world go round. To have a game set in the 20th century and not have money is strange. PLUS the money idea solves some problems and limitations that relying on CIC has.
  • First problem: CIC for trade with other nations (excluding puppets) always seems to be 1 factory for 8 of whatever resource (even though some resources are rarer and more valuable than others) there is no negotiation or supply/demand forces at play.
  • Second problem: Country A cannot use CIC to purchase 5,000 trucks, or small arms, or whatever else, from Country B. The only trade between nations in this sense is lend-lease and that's only after war begins, but countries were certainly trading prior to war.
  • Third problem: Diplomacy between nations is and always will be neutered without currency - are we to forget that the whole reason USA even bothered providing lend-lease to UK, putting aside FDRs alignment with the Allies, was because the UK agreed to the cash-and-carry provisions?
  • Fourth problem: Impossible to purchase basing rights/military access or ability to transport trade through a neutral country as a middle-man.
2. Supply system of HoI3 was messy, but I prefer it to HoI4 if they improved it. I see no compelling reason to do things on a State level rather than province level, presuming build costs for CIC/MIC, air-bases, rocket sites and nuclear reactors stay the same, you will just be building them in a more specific location so it involves no more clicks. Literally the only one which would actually add to micro and more clicks is infrastructure (the very one you supported). IN ANY case, the anti-micro argument is stupid anyway, that problem is easily solved by being clever about commands, e.g. Shift+LMB queues 1 infrastructure to build in every province in that State. That way you as the player have the choice to micro or not, IMAGINE THAT A SANDBOX GAME WITH CHOICE.

3. Again, I disagree. Air-zones are a stupid idea: you will always be bombing something you don't want to bomb with them. WIth the painting system I propose you can just bomb London if you want, or the entire Maginot line, or an entire State, or as many provinces as you want within range - and it'd be easy to do with the painting tool RMB+drag does one province at a time, Shift+RMB does entire States at a time, ctrl+RMB does every enemy province in range. Bingo, bango, bongo. Easy as pie, now micro and macro players can do exactly what they want. I wouldn't be opposed to adding the ability for players to attach air-wings to theaters and let the AI deal with it if that's what some people want. Although, in my own personal opinion I'd never do that as what's the point of playing the game if I don't actually fight the war.

4. Transport ships were separate to convoys in HoI3, so I meant transport ships. But Landing Craft should be added too. Certainly having convoys transporting troops is a horrible idea which lets players do crazy things like invade USA as Japan in 1936.
 

ChaChaLoco

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I want an espoinage system.

Me too.

The economic system you suggest is just a more complicated game mechanic that does not add anything new to the game. (if you call civilian factory "money" the current game mechanics are exactly as those you suggest)

No they are not, refer to the post above in response to the other chap.

World tension system can be tweaked, especially to punish those who increase the world tension. If the soviets are aggressive the allies should not be allowed to declare war on a carefull germany player.

Well, maybe, but I'll tell ya one thing: It needs a helluva lot of tweaks, that's for damn sure.

Fuel system is not something I care about. It just introduces more micro to manually start and stop naval and air missions and makes the ai worse. You cant drive to moscow with a tank without supplies because it moves at 1kph with no org.

Again, you seem to be missing the problems it solves: of tanks still being effective, submarines never running out of supplies or surfacing. Plus, fuel was a huge factor in the war, it should be present in-game.

Province and air changes will just introduce more micro without adding anything. I would rather attach my planes to an army and let the ai use those planes to support my army. For me this game is about running the country and decidi g that my eastern front should have 15000 planes, not commanding 10 planes to support those 2000 men in that battle by that farm.

Yeah, again, couldn't disagree more. It adds choice, it allows me to direct my air force how I want to. It doesn't FORCE the micro on anyone as you can still use the state-painting or larger under my suggestion.

Naval I agree with trade routes, but disagree with the rest of your points. I like the way the game handles naval invasions without transports(but should be tweaked)

Naval invasions in the game right now are okay, one problem is you can only have one invasion plan out of a single port. The other is that because they use convoys you can perform huge naval invasions right from 1936.

More provinces, more boring micro.

It would scarcely add anymore micro than what you already have!? If anything it just allows greater strategic choice and scope for the player, and also fixes the atrocious weather/air system. Plus it allows more choice in peace-conferences to set up borders how you like.

Coastal artillery makes no sense, no ships will ever get that close to land without intending to naval invade. Coastal artillery protects against naval invasions like it does in the game right now.

Yes, and no, there are lots of places in the game that should be far more hazardous to venture through due to coastal artillery. English Channel is one, as mentioned. The Gibraltar Strait and Suez Canal are better examples, and lastly the Baltic area.
 

inteljoe

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Economics are basically already in the game. Instead of money it's called "civilian factories". Basically you trade civilian factories away for stuff you need/want.

Looking at everything you have there, it looks like you should go play HOI3?
 

Kovax

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Looking at everything you have there, it looks like you should go play HOI3?
That's my solution to most of HOI4's problems. Granted, HOI3's got a pretty hefty share of its own. I really wish Paradox had made something about half-way between the two, with some of the better features of each.
 

Ancalimé

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Needs to be nuanced, some nations would never surrender, e.g. Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, Soviet Union.
This is factually incorrect. Two of those nations surrendered (third won the war).
 

The-False-Being26

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I also would like to add a point on your wish-list and I hope they read that and think about it.
Today I have encircled and completely cut off 800k US American soldiers with Germany in North Africa in multiplayer. I thought: Yes I have him!
Then he simply deleted his entire army and got all of his manpower and his equipment back in his pool. I mean whaaaat?!
1st: Why is that possible?
2nd: I would think about a restriction that you can only delete troops on your own territory, maybe another 2nd restriction that they must have full organization to prevent people deleting their fully cut off army which is unrealistic and really annoying.
3rd: Maybe you could add a function that units can only be deleted where they have been deployed? To prevent people from deleting their army when it gets encircled on their own soil..?
4th: If you are not able to add such a function could you not add that the equipment and manpower needs to be shipped with convois from e.g. Africa (where you delete your army) back to the United States? So that people can intercept the convoys and sink the equipment and manpower?

I think it's really unfair. I have lost 1.5 Million men in this war and the USA only 250k because they made it to save their entire army with this unrealistc and annoying tactic....

Greetings

(I'm sorry if this might be a post that would belong to another topic)
You need to play games with rules/ts, or find a group of friends to play with,