Arilou

Irken Tallest
100 Badges
Aug 24, 2002
8.136
481
Visit site
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • King Arthur II
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Okay, Pops was a good idea for Vicky, unfortunately, in EU2 I think it would either degenerate into a lot of micromanagement or would be pretty meaningless.

So I propose: The Pie-Chart Approach (TM)

You have a pie-chart of your population. By clicking on various tabs it can get to display religion, culture, social class, etc. etc. Heck, there might even be a way to link the three (so you can check what social class your russian catholics belong to)

Admittedly in the more complex version (rather than simple assigning the province a "36% catholics, 24% protestants, 10% jews, 20% Hindu" you actually assign what religion each culture and social class belongs to....) would probably require a "pop" anyway, the main difference is that it would be invisible.

Invisible is good. We don't *need* to promote/demote pops, we don't need to put them into factories or turn them into soldiers. Hence they might as well just be rendered "invisible" (apart from the "Province population screen") It means the information will be easier to get, there's less screens to take care off and it'll be overall cleaner while still allowing maximum flexibility:

Religion could of course be affected by a wide variety of things (DP sliders, events, conversion attempts, expulsions...) Culture likewise (I like the idea of CIV-style "civics" in *addition* to the DP-sliders: Depending on your education system (let's say we have "Decentralized education", "National education" and "religiously based education", each of these could have several effects, if everyone has to go to church school* to learn how to read your religion might grow slowly for instance....)

Same sort of stuff could be done with classes.

How does it sound?

*Sweden actually had compulsory education (very simple and mostly focused on being able to read the catechism) during the EU2 timeframe, mostly it was arranged by the local bellringers.
 

George LeS

Ruler of the Queen's Navee
8 Badges
Feb 13, 2004
4.850
16
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
Ok, but just keep it simple. I like the idea of percentages, for both religion & culture, but the only factors you'd control would be tolerance, missions, or colonists/immigrants.
 

OHgamer

Victoria's Plastic Surgeon
37 Badges
Jan 28, 2003
18.056
582
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C
 

Jayavarman

★ ★ ★ ★ ★
83 Badges
Feb 8, 2002
11.166
1.582
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Elven Legacy Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines
  • 500k Club
  • 200k Club
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • For The Glory
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • East India Company Collection
  • Diplomacy
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Lead and Gold
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
OHgamer said:
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C
Then, we get to debate who can make the list as a significant enough minority. :D
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
OHgamer said:
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C

That may be better than the strict percentages - I'm guessing it would be slightly easier to code, and coming up with exact percentages for every province would be a nightmare - especially as there's no accurate demographic data at the required level of detail for the period!

And, if each slot were tied to some sort of rough numerical value (eg. Majority A = 60%; Majority B = 30%; Majority C = 10%; unused slots dividing their percentages amongst the used ones), then you could still have the pie charts.
 

Luis de Aveiro

Dragon of Gallaecia Suevorum
130 Badges
Aug 31, 2002
769
4
45
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Sengoku
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Deus Vult
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
OHgamer said:
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C


Looks like the Pop system for Great Invasions
 

Arilou

Irken Tallest
100 Badges
Aug 24, 2002
8.136
481
Visit site
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • King Arthur II
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
Jayavarman said:
Then, we get to debate who can make the list as a significant enough minority. :D

Exactly, it really doesen't solve much...

Though I admit I didn't think of the "OMG no Qazakhs in Moscow!" thing. (not sure if there ever were any qazakhs in Moscow, just an example)
 
Jun 28, 2005
6.697
0
OHgamer said:
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C
I like this, for culture at least. It keeps the game simple, with one majority culture.

But for religions, I think pie-charts for each culture should be used. It would more adequately depict the gradual change of one to the other.
 
Jun 28, 2005
6.697
0
Yggdrasil313 said:
and the option to colonise, setting up a colony in a foreign land.. and thus enter your own as a minority.. which could then in due time and spending the resources become the majority ;)
Yes, this is a new approach on colonization too. :)
 

unmerged(2036)

Lazy poster - avid reader
Mar 20, 2001
220
0
Visit site
I think a pie-chart like representation of religion and cultures would be nice.

I recoqnize the debates arrising from assigning specific percentages to each religion and culture.
However if the percentages are to have any justification, IMHO they ought to be dynamic, in which case the percentages would have to be there anyway (if only just as number 'under the hood').
The result of this would only be a time delay on when the number-crunchers would figure out which percentages P-dox had assigned the vairous religions :)

Might as well print the exact percentages.
 
Jun 28, 2005
6.697
0
mrmister said:
I think a pie-chart like representation of religion and cultures would be nice.

I recoqnize the debates arrising from assigning specific percentages to each religion and culture.
However if the percentages are to have any justification, IMHO they ought to be dynamic, in which case the percentages would have to be there anyway (if only just as number 'under the hood').
The result of this would only be a time delay on when the number-crunchers would figure out which percentages P-dox had assigned the vairous religions :)

Might as well print the exact percentages.
Well, another solution is purely pie-charts, but with the ability to "select" pie-charts for a given religion or culture.

Say the province has to pie-charts, one for religion, one for culture, for the whole of the province. You should have the ability to select one of the culture, and see what's the religious split in it. Likewise, you should be able to select a religion, and see what cultures compose a part of it.
 

Lurken

Leading the Mombotian Horde
58 Badges
Oct 6, 2003
3.822
4
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lead and Gold
  • Magicka
OHgamer said:
Why even have % for different groups (and open up all those cans of worms that x minority should be at 26% not 21%).

Have a list that says

Majority Culture : X
Minority Culture : Y
Minority Culture : Z

Majority Religion : A
Minority Religion : B
Minority Religion : C
Not tha bad really...but then again any system that will show more information would be great, as the pie-chart system...