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WhiskyGlen

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After having played this game for only a few hours, I do have some immediate first impressions. There is a lot to like about this game, but there is also a lot that could be improved. Perhaps I am overly biased because I may have been looking too much for a modern version of Close Combat. Granted, this is a beta so some of my ideas may in fact be in the works.

1) Perhaps I missed it in the settings, but the camera needs the ability to rotate like a Total War game.

2) The game sometimes feels too much like a game meant for mobile devices. What I mean by that is the icons above the units are way too big. What is the point of sneaking around if your units are just highlighted bright as can be once they are spotted?

3) Going along with #2, for the minimap, I would prefer indicators that show the direction and location (if spotted/known) that incoming fire is coming from, rather than where units are exactly.

4) I love the idea of the dynamic front-line. But it also makes it too easy to know where the enemy forces are located. See a bulge out west? Well, there must be some enemies over there. There are a few solutions to this.
a) Quasi-static frontlines. This would mean that the frontline only updates after so much time. Say every minute or two minutes. That would at least only allow you the general idea of where an enemy unit is.
b) Close Combat had chokepoints you fought over for. I would rather this idea, and perhaps they will exist in a post-release gamemode. I would add chokepoints (far more than CC... say 20-30 per 1v1 map?) to move the front rather than exact unit location.
c) The front only updates when units engage in combat and/or units are killed in combat.

5) I am not sure I like the unit spam this game results in. While that is the core of the game, I would prefer close combat style where units are limited. Thus I would add a game mode where so many points are given before battle and can be spent any way you want. However, units will still enter the map during their proper phase. This will make units far more valuable than they are now.

6) Close Combat had a way of making me feel more connected with my units. Each man in each unit had a name.. their individual kills were tracked as were their medals they earned. It appears Steel Division only gives a single name to each unit (I assume the commander of each squad). I would like to see the stats expanded. Though with the unit spam style of this game, that may not be as valuable. But what if you could carry over units from game to game (whether multiplayer or single player)? Add more experience levels and suddenly you will care about that one infantry squad that's been remarkable battle after battle and somehow avoids the reaper.

7) Perhaps this is in the works. I have not been able to find a ton of info on this game. But specific attacking and defensive missions need to be added to the game. I set up a beautiful defensive perimeter in my games only to have the AI take forever to advance on them. Obviously, those taking the defense should have far more limited resources than those on the offensive.

8) Battle continues. I actually fought to a draw in one of my skirmish matches. If the objective is not reached, then I believe, at least for single player, the option to continue the battle with redeployment based on present zones of control should exist.

9) More movement/stance options. We do have the option to move fast. But why is there no sneak option? I know there is the option to use cover when moving, but the sneak option in CC was extremely useful. And how about the ambush/defend options of CC? Right now your units either fire when they feel like or they return fire when fired upon. Massacred many a units in my CC days with a well placed Schweres MG42 set in ambush.

Well, those are all I can think of at the moment. Again, perhaps I was expecting this to be too much like the old Close Combat games. But this game really feels way too arcady and smartphoneish at the moment. Hopefully a few more hours with it will change my mind. It has sooooo much potential. Unfortunately, my couple hours with it makes me feel like reinstalling the CC remakes they released about 10 years ago, that probably still work with Windows 10, rather than playing this. :/
 

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I agree that the dynamic frontline is super unrealistic and makes fighting a war of movement risky and less likely to be rewarding. It could be solved by having units that have the "return fire" option on, not impact the frontline. That way you can sneak around. As a balancing counter, when you fall back in enemy territory it should be an intstant surrender.
 

WhiskyGlen

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I agree that the dynamic frontline is super unrealistic and makes fighting a war of movement risky and less likely to be rewarding. It could be solved by having units that have the "return fire" option on, not impact the frontline. That way you can sneak around. As a balancing counter, when you fall back in enemy territory it should be an intstant surrender.

That may be a potential solution and a fair counter-balance. One thing is that it's not so much how the line moves, but it's how much slower it moves when you near an enemy unit. A better player can probably detect the exact location of an enemy unit simply by that and launch a preemptive artillery strike on the location.
 

dah0rst

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Here are some of my opinions regarding your suggestions. I have around 30 hours played and watch a lot of streams (eg VulcanHD), so I guess I'm already gaines some more insight into mechanics and basic strategies.

1) Press the middle mouse key
2) Only units are shown that are in line of sight of units with adequate spotting (eg. hidden units may only be seen by recon). As you play more, you'll see that the game evolves around LOS. Hiding icons would only make it tedious to follow the action and add nothing to the gameplay imo. Also you can make icons smaller in the options if I'm not mistaken.
3) For artillery, you have to see fire origins for yourself. Maybe you could add indicators, but removing icons would make it worse, see 2)
4) You haven't quite figured out how the frontline works. There are units that don"t affect it (scouts or anti-tank). The frontline rather indicates if you lack intel/ line support (if there's a breakthrough in the frontline, it doesn't mean someones pushing, it could also be you're missing adequate units to support). Since the game evolves around LOS, sneaking up on units is integral and possible, but you have to learn the game mechanics first. Like most of the critique threads in this forum, I could answer: Learn the game first.
Imo. the dynamic frontline is a great tool both strategically as well as a mission objective that encourages an aggressive play-style.
5) Unit spam depends on division. If you play Ersatztruppen Luftlande or Scottisch Inf, there will be a lot of squads on the map. But most of the time, especially with the tank divisions, the dynamic is concentrated on a few key units, eg heavy tanks or artillery. Though there is even artillery spam some time (I'm looking at you, Indianhead), at a high level of gameplay every unit is valuable and every loss is crucial.
6) Singleplayer has that, at least for squads I guess. See developer diary on Eugens website.
7) Thats not how you play the multiplayer, it's about pushing on the enemy and win ground. If you want to sit in a stale position and poke each other with artillery, you could of course play destruction. At least by looking at screenshots, it seems like single player has some defense missions.
8) I don't know what you mean by that. If none of the players advances, of course it will be a draw. That's why you need to push in conquest mode (hence the name).
9) Some selective fire (for example only use sneak AT on hidden Inf units or only fire at close range) would indeed be nice for hidden units. Sneaking wouldn't be useful since the game evolves around LOS and cover anyway. Play a bit more and you'll find out how to effectively use your Inf and AT to sneak up on the enemy.
 
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fabius

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1) If your middle mouse key doesn't work (it doesn't for some) then Ctrl +A or D works
 

WhiskyGlen

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First off, it really bothers me when people disagree/thumbs down a post like this, where some thought was put in, without bothering to leave a response to say why I am wrong.

1) If your middle mouse key doesn't work (it doesn't for some) then Ctrl +A or D works

In regards to this and using the mouse to move the screen, why are they not defaults to begin with? Common sense would show that a 360 degree camera would be preferred by most. Failure to make it the default is silly.

Here are some of my opinions regarding your suggestions. I have around 30 hours played and watch a lot of streams (eg VulcanHD), so I guess I'm already gaines some more insight into mechanics and basic strategies.

Thanks for taking the time for a full response.

2) Only units are shown that are in line of sight of units with adequate spotting (eg. hidden units may only be seen by recon). As you play more, you'll see that the game evolves around LOS. Hiding icons would only make it tedious to follow the action and add nothing to the gameplay imo. Also you can make icons smaller in the options if I'm not mistaken.

In real life, you will almost never maintain constant line of site on the enemy. They will drop in the grass or hide behind trees. So you may know exactly where they are, but seeing an individual for more than a few moments rarely occurs unless in open terrain.

4) You haven't quite figured out how the frontline works. There are units that don"t affect it (scouts or anti-tank).

I am aware of that part and that part is good.

The frontline rather indicates if you lack intel/ line support (if there's a breakthrough in the frontline, it doesn't mean someones pushing, it could also be you're missing adequate units to support). Since the game evolves around LOS, sneaking up on units is integral and possible, but you have to learn the game mechanics first. Like most of the critique threads in this forum, I could answer: Learn the game first.

Except that when two units able to push the front-line near each other, the amount it changes lessens. Thus it's easy to pinpoint nearly the exact location where an enemy is located before seeing them.

that encourages an aggressive play-style.

Exactly why the game feels like a cellphone game.

5) Unit spam depends on division. If you play Ersatztruppen Luftlande or Scottisch Inf, there will be a lot of squads on the map. But most of the time, especially with the tank divisions, the dynamic is concentrated on a few key units, eg heavy tanks or artillery. Though there is even artillery spam some time (I'm looking at you, Indianhead), at a high level of gameplay every unit is valuable and every loss is crucial.

I turn the income gain to very low and there are still too many units on the map. Doesn't seem to really depend on which division you use. I would turn off the idea of income gain and instead start with limited resources. Perhaps with the ability to earn more by destroying units or capturing strategic points.

6) Singleplayer has that, at least for squads I guess. See developer diary on Eugens website.

Perhaps there will be more at release, but right now, it appears not so.

7) Thats not how you play the multiplayer, it's about pushing on the enemy and win ground. If you want to sit in a stale position and poke each other with artillery, you could of course play destruction. At least by looking at screenshots, it seems like single player has some defense missions.

And why exactly does that have to be how multiplayer is played? Right now there are two game modes and neither is compelling. Hopefully there are more in the works. But it wouldn't be hard to add attack/defend missions where the attackers are given more resources.

8)
I don't know what you mean by that. If none of the players advances, of course it will be a draw. That's why you need to push in conquest mode (hence the name).

It's a Close Combat mechanic where if the time runs out on a battle, and it was not conclusively won by either side, then you return to that battle later and re-deploy your units. What was fun about it is that there could be pockets of enemies hidden within a small area because they happened to have one unit there.

9) Some selective fire (for example only use sneak AT on hidden Inf units or only fire at close range) would indeed be nice for hidden units. Sneaking wouldn't be useful since the game evolves around LOS and cover anyway. Play a bit more and you'll find out how to effectively use your Inf and AT to sneak up on the enemy.

That's what sneaking did in Close Combat. Made it hard for the opposing squads to see your squads.

----------------------------------------

I bought this game a week ago. I have not played it since a week ago. I haven't found the motivation to play a game that comes off as strategically boring. Too bad I bought the $60 deluxe version. I knew better too. Hopefully it improves. It has potential. But it's just so terribly arcady and mobile phone feeling that I doubt I will ever enjoy it.
 

Adribenzema

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First off, it really bothers me when people disagree/thumbs down a post like this, where some thought was put in, without bothering to leave a response to say why I am wrong.



In regards to this and using the mouse to move the screen, why are they not defaults to begin with? Common sense would show that a 360 degree camera would be preferred by most. Failure to make it the default is silly.



Thanks for taking the time for a full response.



In real life, you will almost never maintain constant line of site on the enemy. They will drop in the grass or hide behind trees. So you may know exactly where they are, but seeing an individual for more than a few moments rarely occurs unless in open terrain.



I am aware of that part and that part is good.



Except that when two units able to push the front-line near each other, the amount it changes lessens. Thus it's easy to pinpoint nearly the exact location where an enemy is located before seeing them.



Exactly why the game feels like a cellphone game.



I turn the income gain to very low and there are still too many units on the map. Doesn't seem to really depend on which division you use. I would turn off the idea of income gain and instead start with limited resources. Perhaps with the ability to earn more by destroying units or capturing strategic points.



Perhaps there will be more at release, but right now, it appears not so.



And why exactly does that have to be how multiplayer is played? Right now there are two game modes and neither is compelling. Hopefully there are more in the works. But it wouldn't be hard to add attack/defend missions where the attackers are given more resources.

8)

It's a Close Combat mechanic where if the time runs out on a battle, and it was not conclusively won by either side, then you return to that battle later and re-deploy your units. What was fun about it is that there could be pockets of enemies hidden within a small area because they happened to have one unit there.



That's what sneaking did in Close Combat. Made it hard for the opposing squads to see your squads.

----------------------------------------

I bought this game a week ago. I have not played it since a week ago. I haven't found the motivation to play a game that comes off as strategically boring. Too bad I bought the $60 deluxe version. I knew better too. Hopefully it improves. It has potential. But it's just so terribly arcady and mobile phone feeling that I doubt I will ever enjoy it.

Dont like the game?easy,refund in steam is possible,read the steam refund options and take the money :)
Conclution: play close combat if this game dont like :)

Cheers
 

WhiskyGlen

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If you want a more realistic Close Combat operational style, try one of the Graviteam series.

Thanks for the suggestion. Operation Star does look kind of interesting. Sadly, I already put my money on this game and don't have the time for so many at once. Plus I was drawn to this game due to being published by Paradox (initially had hoped it was developed by, but not their style of game, I suppose). I tend to trust them even if I curse out their DLC policy every chance I get...
 

Dongs Galore

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You can refund this at any time before release, the two-hour limit for refunds doesn't apply to betas.

If you're interested in Graviteam I suggest Tank Warfare: Tunisia, which is their latest release. OpStar is older and has an even worse UI but it has some interesting modern DLC. If you prefer the Eastern Front over North Africa, Mius Front is your best bet.
 

Hellequin

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Honesly this seems like you wanted Close Combat to be remade and then was dissapointed it wasn't.

If regards to it feeling arcadie try turning off unit scaling in the options menu. It'll stop unitd getting bigger as you zoom out.

The frontline works well, it can give more information than required sometimes. But it also does a good job of punishing a lack of recon by forming fake bulges in areas you can't see.

My advice would be try and see it as its own game not as a new Close Combat. If its still not for you refund and try something else.