My expectations for Cities Skylines 2 Base Game, feel free to add

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ArchiPhoenix

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Oct 2, 2016
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Hi all,

We've discussed at length over the past weeks and months how CS2 failed to meet our expectations, but have we really expressed to Colossal Order what we expect the base game to do?
In bits and pieces most probably but I decided to make a list of the things that were made to improve CS1 and should have been incorporated in CS2. Because it just can't be that CS2 is a lesser game than CS1 out of the box, no DLCs included, and developing the new game from scratch isn't a valid excuse for it. The coding might be different, but you sure as hell should be able to implement similar features.
I went by reverse chronological order so don't mind what comes in what place.

And Colossal Order, this list is one you can check yourself, because it entirely consists of points written in own your patch notes.

- Option to activate / disable zone grid when building roads
- Building variations and the ability to select them.
- Add LUTs and map themes.
- More vegetation variations
- More vehicle variations
- City service vehicle selection
- Tree replacement on roads
- Train Station Variations
- Upgrade tool for quays and retaining walls (there's already a mod doing this, but this should be in the base game).
- More healthcare buildings
- More pedestrian paths
- More education buildings
- Building colour variations
- Look at the old Industries DLC for how we expected specialised industries to work in CS2.
- More parks
- Props
- Map Editor
- Asset Editor
- Content manager
- Scenarios
- Better landscaping tools
- Canals, dikes, flood walls.

Considering the number of DLCs and so on, the list isn't really all that long to get base CS2 to the level of the CS1 base that has been improved over the years, but this "small" stuff is what made the game a more individual experience, things that gave you real control on how your city looked.

Of course there are still a lot of bugs and fails that need to be resolved and you can find those in the appropriate forum but we do need the following:

- A working simulation. It seems to commit suicide at some point and needs to be a little more challenging than what it is now.
- Better water model. The rivers seem even worse than in CS1, maybe give up on the water source and make it a kind of network in which water flows.
- Better textures, especially in the specialised industries (no shadows, feels very flat)
- Snow on building's textures.
- Fix the weather in your maps. It rains way too much in most environments.
- Better maps. Did you forget how to do them after Cities 1? River Delta, for example, has an elevation change from the sea to the edge of the buildable area of 400m. 400m in 4 kms is just way too unrealistic. It sure could happen in real life , but you'll never find a delta or a city in such places. Get inspired by real places. Those are the best maps you have right now.
- More building sizes and by that I mean smaller. Smaller schools, smaller police station, etc...
- The ability to build highways, high tension electrical wires, rails and transport lines unbound by the tiles we purchased.

Those are my two cents for what I expected CS2 to be at release and what I feel is wrong right now and is breaking the experience for me. It will be different from player to player and many of us have posted the bugs they found already.

Feel free to add any expectations you have for the base game of CS2.

Have a great day!
 
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Well your shopping list should be pretty easy to implement in full - shall we put a timescale of three, perhaps four years starting from now ?

Seriously, everyone has their list of important items and these will vary based upon what their game usage interests are. I'm sure CO/PDX alos have a list of priorities based upon business interests and what they believe can be fixed easily and quickly. If those overlap with the priorities of their customers, who knows?
 
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Several things are done by mods already.

Anarchy lets you build your highway, power , water, and rail network on unpurchased tiles tiles.

Combined with being able to pick your starting location with the 529 tile mod and having farming, and the other specialized industry unlocked so that there's a reason your town may have sprouted up those 3 mods alone change things a lot.

And yes, I would have loved having those features in the base game.
 
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Hi all,

We've discussed at length over the past weeks and months how CS2 failed to meet our expectations, but have we really expressed to Colossal Order what we expect the base game to do?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, people have. People just want what the developers said was expected and for the game to... actually work.
Look - it's a good list that you made there, but everyone is going to have their opinion and I feel like the issue at hand gets lost in the weeds somewhere.
Changes between an original title and it's sequel are expected and as long as they make sense for the reasonable person, they're fine.

What wasn't fine was saying official mod support was "days after release", and that there were 2500 assets in region packs on their way out the door, and then delivering a paper-thin experience.

Let's take a game like Mass Effect 1 & 2. A lot of people thought the landing mechanic was tedious and repetitive. Personally, I agree. Most people didn't care that it was absent in the sequel. Yeah, okay - a few people were grumpy about loosing the ability to land on planets and freely explore, but it was completely overshadowed by the fact that Mass Effect 2 is still the best narrative space drama experience in existence.

Get my point? So, I like your list - but I think the problem is a lot more subtle than just checking off feature items.
Passion comes to mind. The game needs passion.
 
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I don't disagree with your list, all good stuff. I just want to see real innovation....

Road builder. Let me create different roads in game and use them. There can be a default set of roads like currently in game so you don't need to create roads all the time. Also would allow for more unique builds.

Event system. This would open a ton of modding and dynamic-ness missing from CS games. Maybe "The national gov passes a bill funding $x to go towards $y funding." The player gets so much money to use towards say roads or schools, use it or lose it. The possibilities here are infinite.

Actual modular buildings. Whatever they currently did for modular stuff is a joke. Let me building different transit stations! Let me place modular stops in the stations with different track types! Have by default no parking so I can fit these in any scenario I need. I can always add more parking for park and rides...

Better zoning. We are still using square zoning. Let be set parameters by neighborhood and let the buildings fill in! If that is too advanced... which fine I understand, then at least have better mixed use! Why can't I better mix and match zoning! Office + commercial + residential can all go together in different combinations. Where is light industrial? So weird having a bunch of smokestacks. Residential zoning is all goofy without some sort of middle density. I want more control over building height. I could go on...

The whole specialized industrial system regressed from CS1. The zoning thing is cool but not implemented well. It should be used for parks, plazas, farms (which should be larger and NOT spawn stupid random buildings).

Region system from SC4. This is a bit of a long shot but.....

Stormwater! This is a big part of urban planning yet absolutely nothing in game! Again, another long shot but even if some way for water to accumulate when it rains. More "green" spaces nearby, the less water that pools? Then your street stormwater system by default can handle x amount. Just spit balling.

There is a lot I could go on about. OP didn't even mention Bikes haha... :( I wouldn't expect all of these and a few are long shots. I am just very underwhelmed with CS2. I was cautiously optimistic with the simulation but CO clearly didn't execute it.
 
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Stormwater! This is a big part of urban planning yet absolutely nothing in game! Again, another long shot but even if some way for water to accumulate when it rains. More "green" spaces nearby, the less water that pools? Then your street stormwater system by default can handle x amount. Just spit balling.
What exactly would having to add a stormwater system alongside sewage add to the game? Would there be much more to it than basically just placing more pipes under the roads? It sounds neither challenging nor fun to me. If you want more than that you may as well just make more complex water/sewage and power systems.
 
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What exactly would having to add a stormwater system alongside sewage add to the game? Would there be much more to it than basically just placing more pipes under the roads? It sounds neither challenging nor fun to me. If you want more than that you may as well just make more complex water/sewage and power systems.

It could add flooding after rain storms if not set up properly.
 
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A lot of things that you said I 100% agree with.

1. The maps stink. Terrain features are way over-exaggerated. The default maps feel like a quickly thrown together afterthought. None of them are particularly interesting or fun to build on. The fertile land area is a joke. The overall distribution of resources is weird.

2. The entire development, zoning and real estate market needs an overhaul. I have no expectation that any significant changes will be made but I will make my thoughts known anyways. I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts here but TL;DR: everything was implemented better in Sim City 4. Do it more like that.

a. Light industrial/manufacturing zoning. Cities have industrial parks that don't involve heavy industry. Why can't we differentiate between the two with zoning?​

b. Housing and development market overhaul​
1. Lots should redevelop themselves as demand dictates to their highest and best use.​
2. Up-zoning lots does not mark the existing building for demolition​
3. Buildings that you don't want to be redeveloped can be marked as "Historic" or entire districts can have a historic designation.​
c. The whole building level system should be thrown out and re-implemented in some other way. I'd do something like Sim City 4 where lots could be populated with buildings that target different wealth levels. The appearance of the lot might change depending on the resident's wealth, their ability to upkeep the property, and surrounding conditions. In real life houses don't have to progress through a series of levels to become a mansion. Mansions are just built where mansions are demanded.​

d. Demand for housing should be based on wealth level and desirability, not density. Density is a side effect of demand. You don't get demand for density on it's own.​
e. The introduction of mixed-use zoning was great. It should exist at all density levels. High density residential and office buildings should always have the possibility of ground-floor retail.​
f. There is no need to differentiate between office zoning and commercial zoning. In the real world, it's the same thing.​
 
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Get rid off this stupid tile purchasing. I purchase land when I zone a piece of terrain, that's it. What's the purpose of purchasing a tile? Only to make my life more complicated, it doesn't add anything useful or any kind of challenge to game. This unnatural tile purchasing is limiting your creativity and anyway most of the players use the 529 tile mod.
 
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What exactly would having to add a stormwater system alongside sewage add to the game? Would there be much more to it than basically just placing more pipes under the roads? It sounds neither challenging nor fun to me. If you want more than that you may as well just make more complex water/sewage and power systems.
For simplicity sake, it would drain x amount of rain water with sewage pipes. No need for a third set of pipes. But, green space would naturally soak up so much water. Any excess water after would start to pool up in low lying areas. This is why you see developments with ponds. There is a lot of urban planning that goes into storm water management.
 
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For simplicity sake, it would drain x amount of rain water with sewage pipes. No need for a third set of pipes. But, green space would naturally soak up so much water. Any excess water after would start to pool up in low lying areas. This is why you see developments with ponds. There is a lot of urban planning that goes into storm water management.
I'm fairly certain there are huge regional differences in what is not just needed, but also effective. In addition there are big differences depending on city sizes. You may want ponds and green areas to make it realistic. I would want rivers, streams and pipes. Green areas are really bad at soaking up water during the winter in places with proper winter. It simply isn't a reliable method when that big rainfall comes and the ground is frozen. At that point you may as well use concrete.

Also, there is such a thing as too much management. I'm really not convinced that storm water management is something which would appeal to the masses which CS2 is aimed at, despite
CS1 having a reputation for leaning heavy to the traffic management side of urban planning.
 
I'm fairly certain there are huge regional differences in what is not just needed, but also effective. In addition there are big differences depending on city sizes. You may want ponds and green areas to make it realistic. I would want rivers, streams and pipes. Green areas are really bad at soaking up water during the winter in places with proper winter. It simply isn't a reliable method when that big rainfall comes and the ground is frozen. At that point you may as well use concrete.

Also, there is such a thing as too much management. I'm really not convinced that storm water management is something which would appeal to the masses which CS2 is aimed at, despite
CS1 having a reputation for leaning heavy to the traffic management side of urban planning.
Yeah hence I said I was spitballing when I originally mentioned it. Generally wanted stormwater management/flooding because it is a pretty big deal where I grew up. Obviously rivers and such would also take care of water. Just throwing ideas out since CS2 really doesn't try to innovate much
 
Also, there is such a thing as too much management. I'm really not convinced that storm water management is something which would appeal to the masses which CS2 is aimed at, despite
CS1 having a reputation for leaning heavy to the traffic management side of urban planning.
I dare say a lot of people would find flooding an enjoyable challenge. I know I would. I wasn't thinking of a stormwater drainage system per se, but that extremely heavy rain for a prolonged period would cause flooding.
 
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