My Comments about the 1.2 Patch All are Welcome to Post!

[JScott991]

That would be fine if by 1854 everything was working itself out, but that's not really true. The lack of resources and the factory output issue hampers the fighting of any of the wars in the 1854-1870 period. Its not really until way later in the game, with level 4 RR's and the corresponding techs, that output starts to produce meaningful surpluses of the critical resources.

Slowing industrialization would have been fine in this game, if agrarian economies could support themselves. But they can't. Victoria only simulates industrial economies and in doing so it forces itself to allow industrialization. All that is happening now is a slowdown of the game. Skill will not solve the economic problems. Strategy will not make the player better. All that one can do is minimize their budget and sit. How is that an interesting game? And I don't think anyone will argue that statesmen from 1836-1854 just sat around because everything ran itself. The game gives the player nothing to do in an era when Europe was alive with revolution and change.

That has to be a mistake.

Ah yes - the period between 1836 - 1854. Not alot of colonisation went on in real life. And up to the Crimean war, not alot of major wars (in fact not many since 1815).

I think what everyone is complaining about is that

a) it's harder
b) it takes longer and the start game is slower

I actually like it. Now if we can only stop Russia and the Netherlands colonising Africa and persuade France to do some all would be peachy.

 

[unmerged(12910)]

I'm just troubled that for most goods, the worldwide demand outstrips world supply by a factor of 1000. Do you see such a scenario every happening in real life? You still can't escape from the fact that having less than 1 fabric sold worldwide per day is downright moronic. I just don't see how some people can deny it. In real economies, the quantity supplied and demanded converge, that didn't start happening in 1860, it happenned since people started trading. In Paradox land, apparently the formula for supply is 1/demand.

WM is economically a joke since Vicky 1.0. Whatever it works it's only a game facility without any pretention to be an econnomical simulation. If quantities supplied and demanded converged, any nation would start massive industrialization from 1836 as it was in the first patch. I largely prefer an abstraction putting historical result to another ( because WM is an abstraction ) creating unhistorical ones.

If someone wants to play Mexico, it' s fine. But I wonder why he should be certain to reach Great Powaer status with any nation. We got a mechanism preventing this. Game is harder, some nations will be hopeless ( as they were in reality because I suspect Mexico or China didn't lacked great leaders but social, cultural and economical environment necessary to jump in the industrialization bandwagon). The game is realistic on this point. To play an intersting game, players will have to choose UK, USA or Russia rather than Bhutan or Uruguay to get some difficulty. I'm fine with that.

 

[DGuller]

WM is economically a joke since Vicky 1.0. Whatever it works it's only a game facility without any pretention to be an econnomical simulation. If quantities supplied and demanded converged, any nation would start massive industrialization from 1836 as it was in the first patch. I largely prefer an abstraction putting historical result to another ( because WM is an abstraction ) creating unhistorical ones.

If someone wants to play Mexico, it' s fine. But I wonder why he should be certain to reach Great Powaer status with any nation. We got a mechanism preventing this. Game is harder, some nations will be hopeless ( as they were in reality because I suspect Mexico or China didn't lacked great leaders but social, cultural and economical environment necessary to jump in the industrialization bandwagon). The game is realistic on this point. To play an intersting game, players will have to choose UK, USA or Russia rather than Bhutan or Uruguay to get some difficulty. I'm fine with that.

Missed my point. When countries like France are unable to buy paper and stuff, you know something is broken. That is, you should know. There is a simple way to prevent mass industrialization, but that would require abandoning communistic economy, something that Paradox doesn't want to do at all. Without communism, and nearly unlimited loans, some countries would simply be priced out of the industrialization, as machine parts would cost thousands in capitalistic system at the beginning. Without access to loans, which is really free money from god knows where, you simply have no choice but to wait for the first batch of countries to industrialize, produce machine parts, and drive down the price of industrialization. However, I really don't feel like explaining economics anymore, 1.02 shows that Paradox lacks the understanding of even elementary economics, so people like me and pcasey just pissed away a lot of time talking about fixing the economy on the "Where does money come from" thread.

 

[unmerged(2377)]

I think it's stupid that slaves were taken out. C'mon, slavery existed during this time period. If you take them out of the US, there's no point for the Civil War to occur!

 

[Mordoch]

I think it's stupid that slaves were taken out. C'mon, slavery existed during this time period. If you take them out of the US, there's no point for the Civil War to occur!

I just double checked, and unless somehow a different patch than we were testing as closed beta testers was released, THE US STILL HAS SLAVES. The problems appears to involved some of the South American countries, Brazil in particular, although an easy fix can be implemented by a player that would resolve this issue until another patch comes out. Getting criticism after someone has carefully played for awhile is one thing, but it really bothers me when someone criticizes the beta testers and Paradox about something they presumably thought they read on the forums before they even have played the game with the patch themselves!

 

[unmerged(2377)]

I just double checked, and unless somehow a different patch than we were testing as closed beta testers was released, THE US STILL HAS SLAVES. The problems appears to involved some of the South American countries, Brazil in particular, although an easy fix can be implemented by a player that would resolve this issue until another patch comes out. Getting criticism after someone has carefully played for awhile is one thing, but it really bothers me when someone criticizes the beta testers and Paradox about something they presumably thought they read on the forums before they even have played the game with the patch themselves!

In my saved game as the US, before I applied the patch in 1856 Slaves existed in the South. After applying the patch and it's 1859, slaves do not exist and the slavery issue is gone as well.

 

[unmerged(12910)]

Missed my point. When countries like France are unable to buy paper and stuff, you know something is broken. That is, you should know. There is a simple way to prevent mass industrialization, but that would require abandoning communistic economy, something that Paradox doesn't want to do at all. Without communism, and nearly unlimited loans, some countries would simply be priced out of the industrialization, as machine parts would cost thousands in capitalistic system at the beginning. Without access to loans, which is really free money from god knows where, you simply have no choice but to wait for the first batch of countries to industrialize, produce machine parts, and drive down the price of industrialization. However, I really don't feel like explaining economics anymore, 1.02 shows that Paradox lacks the understanding of even elementary economics, so people like me and pcasey just pissed away a lot of time talking about fixing the economy on the "Where does money come from" thread.

Paradox will not change totally the economic system :

- because it would force to recreate a whole game ( interaction with pops, AI to rewrite)
- because I suspect a free market model would simply not work given the much higher complexity to mdel and run in a RT game


"to wait for the first batch of countries to industrialize, produce machine parts, and drive down the price of industrialization": that's just the way world industrialization worked. At the game start, you can choose to play the first batch or the second. But if you choose to play the second, why Victoria should combine both a more realistic economical model and the totally unrealistic possibilituy to industrialize from the start any nation?

About paper and France: it took 30 years from 1830 to get a signficative industrialization. Whatever the way Paradox chosed to slow overnight industrialization I like that. I largely prefer being unable to build paper France at this time made herself than turning France in a totally industrialized nation in 1850 because paper production and commercialization will always be in Victoria an abstraction whatever quantities in WM but the second is far more engrossing as historical simulation than the first.

Seems you missed my point

 

[Nabatam]

I just double checked, and unless somehow a different patch than we were testing as closed beta testers was released, THE US STILL HAS SLAVES. The problems appears to involved some of the South American countries, Brazil in particular, although an easy fix can be implemented by a player that would resolve this issue until another patch comes out. Getting criticism after someone has carefully played for awhile is one thing, but it really bothers me when someone criticizes the beta testers and Paradox about something they presumably thought they read on the forums before they even have played the game with the patch themselves!

Did I miss something? I agree the use of the word "stupid" is not the most enlightened thing in the world, but I never saw the poster directly critize Paradox (and certainly not the beta testers). Additionally, I didn't see anywhere whether he has played 1.02 or not.

I am afraid tempers are running quite high today with some people critizing the patch a bit too harshly maybe, and the beta testers responding a bit too defensively.

My holiday wishes are for a return to a constructive dialog :wacko:

 

[Mordoch]

In my saved game as the US, before I applied the patch in 1856 Slaves existed in the South. After applying the patch and it's 1859, slaves do not exist and the slavery issue is gone as well.

My point absolutely still stands. Saved games are never guaranteed to be compatible between patches, and bugs can occur. Paradox specificly recommends that you start a new game when you install a new patch. You definately should not have accussed Paradox of creating such a bug before starting a new game and seeing what happened with that one.

 

[unmerged(2377)]

My point absolutely still stands. Saved games are never guaranteed to be compatible between patches, and bugs can occur. Paradox specificly recommends that you start a new game when you install a new patch. You definately should not have accussed Paradox of creating such a bug before starting a new game and seeing what happen with that one.

Did I accuse them of anything? No. Read my post next time before you post.

 

[unmerged(8363)]

I think BennyB and DGuller have really said it all. It's simply insane to have virtually NO paper, glass or fabric in the world market in the mid 1840's - early 1850's! Not to mention the fact that a nation like Prussia can't mantain a army bigger then 20000 without puting all the taxes at 100%. Sure, Prussia wasn't Industrialized in the 1840's-1850's, but hell, it did have a army, and one that didn't consist of a group of scouts and a rabid German Shepherd!

 

[Mordoch]

Did I accuse them of anything? No. Read my post next time before you post.

At the very least you strongly suggested that Paradox had either made a foolish design decision or created a new bug and the suggestion was highly misleading.

 

[unmerged(2377)]

At the very least you strongly suggested that Paradox had either made a foolish design decision or created a new bug and the suggestion was highly misleading.

I voiced my opinion. Where did I say they made a foolish decision?

 

[Mordoch]

I voiced my opinion. Where did I say they made a foolish decision?

You do seem to be missing the point here. Your opinion that slaves no longer existed for the US and this was not a good thing, logically meant Paradox either made a poor decision by removing them deliberately, or a bug was accidently introduced to the game if a reader fully accepted the statement at face value.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

At the very least you strongly suggested that Paradox had either made a foolish design decision or created a new bug and the suggestion was highly misleading.

thats because they have...

and this is coming from one of your biggest fans

 

[unmerged(2377)]

You do seem to be missing the point here. Your opinion that slaves no longer existed for the US and this was not a good thing, logically meant Paradox either made a poor decision by removing them deliberately, or a bug was accidently introduced to the game if a reader fully accepted the statement at face value.

That was before I knew about the saved game issue. You jumped to conclusions by saying that I was accusing Paradox of doing something stupid.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

I voiced my opinion. Where did I say they made a foolish decision?

I just cannot resist the temptation....

I think it's stupid that slaves were taken out

But let it rest Dan Cook and Mordoch. Dan mistakenly believed that there were no more slaves in Victoria, and if he had been right, that would, indeed, have been stupid. Turns out he was wrong, just a case of save-game incompatibility between patches, and I am sure he would feel just a wee bit silly for his blanket statement concerning slaves, if he were not currently so busy defending himself from Mordoch's onslaught. :rofl:

So let that be a lesson to us all: Think before you post, attempt to recreate before you classify something as a bug, and remember to brush your teeth... Or something like that. Ah, well, one out of three is not too bad.

 

[Mordoch]

thats because they have...

and this is coming from one of your biggest fans

You need to carefully read the start of a specific debate in a thread before jumping in with your opinion. (Unless this was simply intended as a snide remark.) Dan Cook claimed that a bug removing slaves from the US had been introduced with the 1.02, this was an incorrect claim based on the fact that his saved game wasn't perfectly compatible with the new patch and removed slaves, this is not an issue when you start a new game. (Paradox does not guarantee that saved games from the old patch will be compatible with the game once a new patch is installed, and recommends you start a new game when you install the patch.)

 

[unmerged(8351)]

Sorry I had read the entire thread but I thought your comment was directed at people who have problems with the patch in general not his stupid/mistaken slavery remark

 

[Vharzul]

Hmm Monbsabert you are completly wrong, paper was freely available even in 1772 hahaha, so for any reason thier should be enough paper on the WM, also glass had been made for centuries, how comes thiers no glass in the victorian market hehe?? tell me that?

Most products that you see on the WM are suppose to be available like they were in 1.1, the fact also is that UK was the first country to get involved in Indsitrialization in doing so, they are also providing Machine parts or which ever country is, but it dosnt last on the WM to cover each year..

Also another thing is this game is a some what Histroicly based, but what most forget Including You it seems is that this game has to be playable, and for that reasons some things arnt suppose to be to historicale, i.e. the WM or nations status, shuer thuis system was suppose to stop rapid Industrialisation, but thier are many diffrant forms of Industrialisation, like advanced bridge building, Trains which is simulated in technology each year.

Also to base this game entirly on Historical facts like the ecenomic system is ludecrise and any one that plays it knows that. To add to this, each country wether a Great Power or a independant nation, has the abilitie or should have the abilitie to have its nation Industrializse better then its Rivels, for all we know it could have been the French or Prussians that started the Industrial Revelution in Real Life lol, this is what this game is also based on Fictional/alternative reality, in which case the Paradox or you have completly gone off track! or de-railed completly.

Sure the economic system of Viky is prepetulay-Complex but it also should be respected, and what Paradox has done is to jump into the deep end of the pool not knowing what liese with in the merky deapths.. and thats also whats happend here!

Thier can only be so much Historical accuracy in this kind of game, other wise the rest dosnt work, things like events etc do that job, the WM/economie is completly diffrant, for all we know the WM back then could have been far greater or waker, thier are many paths into a future, but you can only take one.

The games economics was 95% ok in 1.1 a few things that could have been done to stop some large scale industrialisations was in incrase prices, of 1# Factories or 2# Make that certain type of factorie take longer to build, id go for 1, instead of making a luxurie cloaths factorie cost 20k could make it cost 30-40k you dont have to change the whole price system on the market, though some price incrases could have been also made, like increase the cost of silk, thier by increaseing the cost of the luxurie item some what!

Thats all that really should have been changed, the system for RGO'a ok visualy they look better in saying your output etc, but the economics have been changed or completly changed or recplaced, beyond belive, this is a completly unstaible system that is clearly not working right, some poeple are saying its work and the majority are saaying it isnt, those that say it is are either beta testers or are poeple that were ecslling in the game so quickly and gote themselves to powerfull that they didnt find it a chalange., or thier the sort of people that used exploits!

So the question what will be done about this economic who-ha of a problem, will Paradox re-do the patch and take out the new system and leave in the bug fixes and a few new fetures etc, or will they just leave the community to rott, and vegitate for along peroid of time, and then admiting that they have done a cerius mistake in giving us a completly unplayable system..

Im not a person normaly for complaining, im more of a person for suggesting in the forums, but this has ceriusly underminded Paradoxe's reputation for intorducing broken or faild systems.

I want to see a official reply by either Johan or Patric, eventuly any way hopefuly tomorrow lol thats its Paradox works Saturday's, it would be nice to get thier fead back on this Extreamly large and bothersome problem!