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Vharzul

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Hmm wonder if any one spot whats wrong in this image, hope this proves that pop merger is broke or not working lol :rofl:

http://www.northstar-alliance.net/img/screenshots/256_gamefault.jpg

this is some thing from my currant game, also i didnt say any thing about me not being able to sustain Prussia for a good period of time but when it comes to things like WAr etc as you can see im close still got low manpower etc, as ual I cna get the Best healthcare and enougzh money to keep me ubove water, and all provinces are coverd with lvl 2 RR's but thats about it apart from money thier that I have to save for a later use.. if it comes to a later ;)

oh btw its not jsut in that rpvince in the far Ostrpressen they have farmers in the factorie instead of Clerks as well as Schliesen having the same problem so what gives?
 

dralizaar

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hehe so many more options now than before..i had prussia running as a steel tycoon in one of the games and made very good money...as russia i was the vodka king hehe <had a variety of factorties but i focused on maxing glass and l8iquor> and found that witht he new tax bases one can actually fund a decent sized army off selling alcohol lol...i still would like the prices on base items to go upa tad which is probably my agreement to the agrarian concept another posted above...although i do beleive agrarian societies are handicapped compared to a industrialized nation
 

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I am also running a game as prussia, and the situation is not bad at all (yet).
For starters I lowered my defense spending and military support, and increase the taxes a bit (to ariund 70%) until I got to a more balanced budget. Then I messed a little with the industries, close the low profit, imported sulfure, timber and iron, and got a $15-20 a day supplus increase going. With that and the initial money I was able to build a 5 new factories, (2 fabric, 2 glass, 1 paper),railroads al over the country, and some level 2 railroads in my 3 more productive states. By 1840 was making almost $100 a day. I then decided to lower my taxes to the starting levels, and increase my education budget (to 77%). I was still doing some $25-$30 a day.

My first problem was that due to high taxes have eliminated my middle class (clerks are gone), and one of my fabric factories burned to the ground. The second problem was that my crafstmen were merging, so bringing my work force down.

Then war with denmark came, and I made a small mistake that shoud not be repeated. I panic and deploy all my reserve divisions (19), when half of those would have being enough. So I was losing around 80 a month during the war. But I kicked denmarks butt, got four provices, and annexed holstein. Also thanks to my surplus, I only when 30,000 into debt. After peace have reduced it to 20,000, and it would be soon gone.

Other good news is that I just discovered "Interchangeable Parts" (in 1847) wich puts me in the threshold of inventing "Precision Works". Bad news, my pop are emigrating to the USA, my clerks have dissapear, and my craftmens POP are just enough :( (bug I have big army, making money and four new provinces :D)
 

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I Write As I Take A Hasty Bowl of Soup…

… to quote a widely-mocked despatch from one of the US’s more pompous XIXth Century generals.

Actually, I write as the US on the verge of an early Mexican War. Despite considerable military power at my disposal, I am of course uneasy about the prospect, not least in budgetary terms. I mention the foregoing in the interest of disclosure, so those reading may judge how far I am in getting used to 1.02.

I do however have some preliminary observations, in addition to my prior remarks about ‘stealth’ emancipation in the Texas Revolution.

First, a further disclaimer: due to considerable difficulty in finding a retail copy of the Old Vic, my experience with 1.01 was limited. There was a GC as Switzerland (someday I’ll post the AAR: ‘Anything For a Quiet Life: the Rise of the Gnomes of Zurich’), which was marred by 1.01’s emigration glitches. (I bought Alaska early on, for the future gold rush, when the Mexicans wouldn’t sell me Mariposa. ‘Sutter’s Icebox,’ we called it. But I couldn’t fully exploit it, or the, ahem, Swiss West Indies [the Danes needed the money, what can I say?], because none of my thrifty little clockmakers would leave the Canton of Zug for our New and Glorious Colonies.) And I noodled about with various North American scenarios. But I didn’t have time really to get invested in 1.01 before 1.02 came out, so I don’t really have any dogs in that fight.

That being said, the following points thus far occur to me.

The world market is indeed severely flawed, not least in failing to respond to supply shortages or increased demand properly, by realistic price hikes. Moreover, a more responsive demand / price curve would eliminate one of the most annoying, and ahistorical, elements, that of effectual state monopolies (especially as regards machine tools). With Free Traders running HM Government, the only ‘restriction’ on the export of such goods ought reasonably to be, not the state’s decision to build factories (comrade! Another Five Year Plan!), but the home market’s superior ability to pay the price of acquisition. (Yes, I know, the player is supposed to be more the genius loci of the nation, including incarnating Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand, than he is merely the government, but still….)

And the fabric issue is especially vexing. Even with a player-directed US, building textile mills and clothing companies all over the Deep South, there is still a ludicrously low amount of fabric on the market. Good Christ, people, half of the politics of Great Britain in the period, on matters from India to the War Between the States, revolved around the spinning-wheels of Lancashire, and the cloth trade.

I understand the positions both sides in this thread have taken to date on the issue, but if Ascaron can get that sort of thing dead right on release, sans patches (Patrician II and III, Port Royale), surely Paradox of all groups is eminently capable of equal competence?

Speaking of which examples, I do find I’m doing more micromanagement here than in any of those trade sims. It’s sufferable, but it was not really what, or, I think, most prospective buyers, intended in terms of gameplay. I would wager – based on an extensive familiarity with the average gamer (see below) – that most folks come into the Old Vic expecting some degree of economic and logistics management, but anticipating that the main thrust of the game will be political, diplomatic, and military.

I also am in agreement with those who consider that the Scramble for Africa, and all overseas colonization, is too early, too easy for the AI, and too widespread amongst the Powers in the GC. I further agree that it is precisely contrary to the spirit of the Victorian Age that a Power can lose prestige, as well as ‘honor,’ if you will, for seizing lands and conducting wars against those whom the people of the time viewed as the ‘Lesser Breeds Without the Law.’

Another anomaly that will be noted by those playing the US in particular is that the pool of immigrants is too deep. Or, perhaps, too wide. Portuguese fishermen in Rhode Island, the Irish in Boston, Germans brewing away in Milwaukee and the Texas Hill Country? Fine. But when I look at Southwest Louisiana and see that the dominant local ‘free’ culture is that of immigrant laborers from the Far East…. Well, okay, I suppose the rice planters can use the help, assuming they’re low on slave labor (this is, after all, 1840, still), but the ugly fact of the period was that the US, and not a few other nations, heavily restricted immigration from the non-white world. It’s one of our great historical sins, and I don’t see it modeled here.

And yes, I’m sure this will eventually be addressed in further patches. Of course, that’s an issue for me in itself: whether one regards a computer game as an intellectual property, as a book is, or a tool, as a saw or a hoe is, no other industry on earth behaves in this way. Books are not released without someone’s having edited the galley proofs. CDs do not hit the shelf without the sound’s having been through remastering and other post-production. Chainsaws are not released into the stream of commerce with ‘bugs’ in them, or if they are, the plaintiffs’s bar is all over it like white on rice. But software publishers…. Oh, well. Such is life.

But there is a reason, other than mere venting, that I mention the foregoing. So much of the unpleasantness and the occasional ad hominem argument in this thread, by those pleased and those displeased with the patch alike, would have been avoided if software companies behaved like every other company on the planet, in not releasing product until the damned thing was actually finished and market-ready. (Ascaron is notoriously good about not doing so, Sierra, noxiously bad about it; Paradox is in the middle in my experience.) And it seems to me that the divisions here, and the divisive nature of the argument, are driven, not by anyone’s having some sycophantic ‘allegiance’ to a product (an accusation that ought never have been made), but by the amount of time they have invested in the game or in its beta development. It depends, in other words, on the way in which a person self-identifies either as a consumer, who expects a product to ‘work, damn it,’ or as a participant in development, who is perhaps a bit caught up in counting trees rather than in assessing the forest as a whole. (I am eminently familiar with the phenomenon at, e.g., Epinions, now Shopping.com / Deal Time, where I will doubtless in due course be reviewing this product, as the resident historian.) Both classes of person are, in my view, victims of an industry that chooses to release unfinished product and expects the consumer, or at least some consumers, in effect to act as unpaid quality control. It certainly makes for occasions, as here, of unnecessarily embittered discourse, and I cannot say that I, in my old-fogey fashion, care a right smart for it, on either side.
 

Johnny Canuck

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KonigMaximilian said:
Hmm wonder if any one spot whats wrong in this image, hope this proves that pop merger is broke or not working lol :rofl:

http://www.northstar-alliance.net/img/screenshots/256_gamefault.jpg

This is just my suspicion, but I don't think the problem shown in the screenshot actually has to do with a POP merger gone bad. Is there any emigration from the province in which that particular POP is located?
 

daedalus

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Kedryn said:
Or could be he taxed it into a labourer and the game forgot to remove it from the factory. :)


This sound reasonable, althought I never saw it happen in 1.01, I just saw it on my new 1.02 game. What is was in 1.01, was that when clerks got promoted to capitalist by events, they stay in the factory being unproductive.
 

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The problem is, I think by "something" you actually mean "anything" or "everything" and that's simply not true...


blendo said:
it completely ruins gameplay for countries with low pops because
it merges them and reduces their army size from exagurated to
underinsane.

ruins countries like netherlands/sweeden/portugal/ and other medium but low pop countries , the pops keep merging and manpower base is a joke of a forever negative unless u make all ur pops soldiers + you will never buy anything on world market because ur position drops like a rock from the start
YOU should be able to start in 1836 and do something in 1836! not 60 years later.....
 

Vharzul

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Hahaha No and let me think nNO! some pops are going aboard to places, like Portland, or some to a colonie though it dostn say that in the ledger, but the ones in the ledeger, show Portland one in South of America to england etc and noen in my nation! so the answer is no, as Ive also played on I did win the schlesvig war, but as soon as that war started, I was geting but rushed!

I annexed Holstein thats easy enough anyway, but as for Denemark I was beating it but the prolem was I cant get to thier darn Captial via Scxhwine or what ever it is, cant remember now but its next to Mecklaburg, and i jsut could cross so i could force denemark into a peace for land, and i had Russia coming in from every singal point,m I had my whole armiess that were in reserve mobelised, and need I asay they got damn well creamed, out of egsistance, I managed to make peace with denemark and that stoped russsia and sweeden etc, form coming in because they were allied with Denemark now the funny thing, is this isnt a historical allinace, also the problem was I had revolts at the same time, and also what was paculier, is that i had a -14 warscore with Denemark but I had all thier mainland provinces apart from capital yet sill had that score, and that was due to Russian owning half my damn country's provinces so what gives, from what ive seen now and experiences more times then i want to, this patch isnt worth sh*t to play with!

All because of the Economic system, the REvolt system and the DI system, thinks that all of them the onyl things that were good were that events worked, oh wait actuly I remember now, for odddatiy reason, Baden and Bavaria have now Deomcracy running thier country,. and ive been monitorying the minors very carfuly and I havent seenm any revolters taking the capital in order to change the Monarchy to democracy, now how the hell did this happen, also this is redicules because how ells am I suppose to get the darn Convervative Empire event! I can go to war with either because of all the other minors,. let alone austria, because I lack the troops and the money to fight..

Sorry but this is my standing point and im standing firm, and i have no re-instaled the game and am playing on 1.1 because this is comeplete BS! :D

p.s. i hope they rectifie this soon, I want official from Pardoy to end up seeing this and whats been going on and how people are unhappy and then well see what they are going to say or do, its not for Beta's to decide nore for Moderators, and all the players can do is give thier viewpoint and thier complains and so on and complements and wait and see, until the time comes im playing 1.1 at least that works fine, apart from some minor ammenaty problems with events etc.. but at leats you can realy on the market as well as the events to correctly run.
 

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KonigMaximilian said:
and have the comeplty working and briliant 1.1 economic system

This simply can't be a serious sentence. As everyone knows, Germany rose to be a great industrial power because she could turn out lux. clothes and lux. furniture the fastest. Everyone remember Bismarck's famous "Blood and Frilly Pants" speech?


KonigMaximilian said:
as it stand right now, most people arnt enjoying it..

Look, everyone on both sides: PLEASE STOP CLAIMING TO SPEAK FOR THE GREAT SILENT MASSES. We have no idea what 99% of the people who bought Vic think, because they don't post on these fora. "I" is not logically equivalent to "most people"

KonigMaximilian said:
im sure we did not ask for be force fed a new economic system.

Of course you'd be right. Oh wait, no, you'd be completely and totally wrong. See here and here for just two examples. If there was ONE thing people were clamoring for, it was a totally reworked economy.
 

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Scythe said:
Exactly. But then some people will accuse you/us of "wanting the minors to be as powerful as the Great Powers". :rolleyes: As if the two things should be equated....which is far from the truth.

That's somewhat unfair. If it were up to me, for example, agrarian economies would be nominally sustainable, though you'd never really succeed you'd survive. But also I want the major industrial powers to be head and shoulders ahead of everyone else.

The agrarian path should be sustainable in 1836, but become less and less so as time passes and agriculture becomes more efficient.
 

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KonigMaximilian said:
hmm Dralizaar do you think you could use spaces inbetween sentances it makes it very laborius reading when wall words end up merging because its jstu al text tex text, and yes I know its my opinion but its a probablilitie that its the opinion of many our thier, also I never indicated the idea's of any one or any thing were to bad, but in this case I make an exception to the rule..because it is and was a bad idea, which should be rectified, its the probably opinion of many against the 1, so shoudl that 1 preson have more say then the many?

Oh btw to what I see Dralizaar your also a Beta tester from what I could read, so I gather the truth is in the pudding after all, thata Beta Testers do matter more in some cases then the community..

Also your being all protective of your, product that you help test, oh wow, I think that Beta testers have lost some of thier abilitie to be part of the cummunity and know what wed like to see, because youd share the same vision and posible idea, but im pretty shore this wasnt on the cummunities list of things that they wanted!


Konig Maximilian,

Please for the love of all that is good think before you post. Also, read your own posts and other threads on the fora before you respond to things. As we all find Dralizaar's lack of spaces distracting as so we find your lack of proper punctuation/spelling distracting. Now, I never comment on this type of thing. It's classless and if in an argument you're falling back on this sort of thing, you're in trouble. Furthermore, I have no idea what someone's first language is or how/where they were educated, and none of these have an influence on intelligence, but if you're going to cast dispersions on his proficience with written communication, tend also to thine own house.

Also for the love of all that is good, (say it with me everyone) JUST BECAUSE
YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DOESN'T MEAN THE MAJORITY DOESN'T LIKE IT. Seriously. I promise. The two have no bearing on each other, logically speaking. Really. Let it go.

And as amusing as the giant beta conspiracy is, it's passe. The Betas are out to get us! Please. Heard it before. You need some new material.
 

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Kedryn said:
Or could be he taxed it into a labourer and the game forgot to remove it from the factory. :)

I don't think this was the cause, although like I said, I only have suspicions. The only times that I have seen this problem is when a province was undergoing emigration. When I did see it, my tax rates were at about 40% or so, so there should not have been any POP devolution.
 

unmerged(1862)

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KonigMaximilian said:
Hmm wonder if any one spot whats wrong in this image, hope this proves that pop merger is broke or not working lol :rofl:

http://www.northstar-alliance.net/img/screenshots/256_gamefault.jpg

this is some thing from my currant game, also i didnt say any thing about me not being able to sustain Prussia for a good period of time but when it comes to things like WAr etc as you can see im close still got low manpower etc, as ual I cna get the Best healthcare and enougzh money to keep me ubove water, and all provinces are coverd with lvl 2 RR's but thats about it apart from money thier that I have to save for a later use.. if it comes to a later ;)

oh btw its not jsut in that rpvince in the far Ostrpressen they have farmers in the factorie instead of Clerks as well as Schliesen having the same problem so what gives?


Hold up a sec, chief. You were just bitching hardcore about the lack of money,yes? You've got thirty-five thousand pounds in the bank.

I think I see the problem now. All you can do in the first 9 years is get top-level healthcare and get lvl 2 railroads in every province. In 9 years. Yeah, that sounds like nothing to me.

Exactly what are you unable to do?

I hate to say this, but the person doing the best job of undermining your credibility is you.
 

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LoL I did say I could get that done, but the problem is playing when the schlesvig event comes and then the rest just piles, up it jsut crashes..

BTW on a side not im giving 1.2 one more chance! and the country ive gone for is Japan as to see what happens, with this new system at the presant moment you cant do much, but I cna gain money and still colonise, though I did loss the Island above were China has a colonie, anbd rrussia got to it before I did, I got enough materials and money to have colonised, all the main Japanes Island like Okinawa, Amami, Bonin, also other small islands like Wake, The Carolines, and so on, but England has 1 Island that I need to ceompelte the set and the Netherlands has another 2 that I need but part form that im set! I am only making low profit like 20-30 creds a day but with Japan that to be expected and I know this because im playing Japan as I have done msotly dont know what happend last time, ok ive got the Dutch letter, or saved before that like 1 day before that happens, now then im am going to accept it which I have done, now then the problem lies here, I want to accept Dutch controle over me, meaning Japan becomes a Satelite of The Netherlands, but eventuly i like to break free of being a Satelite, how can I break free emiditaly?

Dose any one know how to Dislove being a Satelite of a nation?, because as i found out if I did take it because of my good economical managment my pop dosnt have any milatancy and its jsut keeps going down so if I accept I dont expect to see any revolts due to my low taxes and tariff, so some help thier would be appreciated, as in 1.1 if I did that the whole country would be up in arms and that means id have to go Democratic :rolleyes: which i dont intend to do, and im not intending to wait another 28 years for the Meji event, ive got a reall chance to make Japan great an im not going to miss the chance the onyl thing that concerns me is that Satelite bit, that being said as a Satelite nation I cannot delcear Colonial War upon any thing, only upon the Nations controling me, and I am not able to even do that :(

So some Help be nice, but as for playing Prussia or some others im going to let that be, Japan I have got the paciants with, due to expierance lol, lets hope when I get futher I dont get dispointed.. :rofl:

Oh as a side not that screenie up aboivce from last post, I can do that all the time with Prussia with lvl 2 RR's and get at least up to 130k enough to get Best Healthcare system money can buy and money left over, plus the RR was the real reasoon you could pull Prussia threw hehe, plus technology for money trading was a big giver, especily with Austria and Russia. If I hadent had spent the moeny on the top Healthcare you can get and the money on new factories and RR's id say it all ammounts to around oh 250-300k not sure, add all provinces togather and make each one 5k that includes both RR's upgrades, also around 30k for Factorie builds and updareds, then add the 99k for Top Healthcare system and that 30k thier plus the money gained form Diplo deals whicih comes to probably around 100k or so, and also selling tech for tech etc, you get the picture, but event with all that cit jsut dosnt work to well hehe, so im giving Japan a try :D wish me luck with that, so now to the help with my little problem.. ;)
 
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Vharzul

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Oh also as a second side not, Japan should be able to declear war, upon China, or Korea, seeing that thier Japans main nabourghs, but unfortunatly I think some one forgot about this hehe, I hope that that could be rectified, seeing that China and Korea are clsoe naubroughs with Japan is shudl allow a Japanes nation to also declear a colonial war or what ever, shame, oh well can only hope.
 

unmerged(6618)

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M.ShawPyle said:
… to quote a widely-mocked despatch from one of the US’s more pompous XIXth Century generals.

Actually, I write as the US on the verge of an early Mexican War. Despite considerable military power at my disposal, I am of course uneasy about the prospect, not least in budgetary terms. I mention the foregoing in the interest of disclosure, so those reading may judge how far I am in getting used to 1.02.

I do however have some preliminary observations, in addition to my prior remarks about ‘stealth’ emancipation in the Texas Revolution.

First, a further disclaimer: due to considerable difficulty in finding a retail copy of the Old Vic, my experience with 1.01 was limited. There was a GC as Switzerland (someday I’ll post the AAR: ‘Anything For a Quiet Life: the Rise of the Gnomes of Zurich’), which was marred by 1.01’s emigration glitches. (I bought Alaska early on, for the future gold rush, when the Mexicans wouldn’t sell me Mariposa. ‘Sutter’s Icebox,’ we called it. But I couldn’t fully exploit it, or the, ahem, Swiss West Indies [the Danes needed the money, what can I say?], because none of my thrifty little clockmakers would leave the Canton of Zug for our New and Glorious Colonies.) And I noodled about with various North American scenarios. But I didn’t have time really to get invested in 1.01 before 1.02 came out, so I don’t really have any dogs in that fight.

That being said, the following points thus far occur to me.

The world market is indeed severely flawed, not least in failing to respond to supply shortages or increased demand properly, by realistic price hikes. Moreover, a more responsive demand / price curve would eliminate one of the most annoying, and ahistorical, elements, that of effectual state monopolies (especially as regards machine tools). With Free Traders running HM Government, the only ‘restriction’ on the export of such goods ought reasonably to be, not the state’s decision to build factories (comrade! Another Five Year Plan!), but the home market’s superior ability to pay the price of acquisition. (Yes, I know, the player is supposed to be more the genius loci of the nation, including incarnating Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand, than he is merely the government, but still….)

And the fabric issue is especially vexing. Even with a player-directed US, building textile mills and clothing companies all over the Deep South, there is still a ludicrously low amount of fabric on the market. Good Christ, people, half of the politics of Great Britain in the period, on matters from India to the War Between the States, revolved around the spinning-wheels of Lancashire, and the cloth trade.

I understand the positions both sides in this thread have taken to date on the issue, but if Ascaron can get that sort of thing dead right on release, sans patches (Patrician II and III, Port Royale), surely Paradox of all groups is eminently capable of equal competence?

Speaking of which examples, I do find I’m doing more micromanagement here than in any of those trade sims. It’s sufferable, but it was not really what, or, I think, most prospective buyers, intended in terms of gameplay. I would wager – based on an extensive familiarity with the average gamer (see below) – that most folks come into the Old Vic expecting some degree of economic and logistics management, but anticipating that the main thrust of the game will be political, diplomatic, and military.

I also am in agreement with those who consider that the Scramble for Africa, and all overseas colonization, is too early, too easy for the AI, and too widespread amongst the Powers in the GC. I further agree that it is precisely contrary to the spirit of the Victorian Age that a Power can lose prestige, as well as ‘honor,’ if you will, for seizing lands and conducting wars against those whom the people of the time viewed as the ‘Lesser Breeds Without the Law.’

Another anomaly that will be noted by those playing the US in particular is that the pool of immigrants is too deep. Or, perhaps, too wide. Portuguese fishermen in Rhode Island, the Irish in Boston, Germans brewing away in Milwaukee and the Texas Hill Country? Fine. But when I look at Southwest Louisiana and see that the dominant local ‘free’ culture is that of immigrant laborers from the Far East…. Well, okay, I suppose the rice planters can use the help, assuming they’re low on slave labor (this is, after all, 1840, still), but the ugly fact of the period was that the US, and not a few other nations, heavily restricted immigration from the non-white world. It’s one of our great historical sins, and I don’t see it modeled here.

And yes, I’m sure this will eventually be addressed in further patches. Of course, that’s an issue for me in itself: whether one regards a computer game as an intellectual property, as a book is, or a tool, as a saw or a hoe is, no other industry on earth behaves in this way. Books are not released without someone’s having edited the galley proofs. CDs do not hit the shelf without the sound’s having been through remastering and other post-production. Chainsaws are not released into the stream of commerce with ‘bugs’ in them, or if they are, the plaintiffs’s bar is all over it like white on rice. But software publishers…. Oh, well. Such is life.

But there is a reason, other than mere venting, that I mention the foregoing. So much of the unpleasantness and the occasional ad hominem argument in this thread, by those pleased and those displeased with the patch alike, would have been avoided if software companies behaved like every other company on the planet, in not releasing product until the damned thing was actually finished and market-ready. (Ascaron is notoriously good about not doing so, Sierra, noxiously bad about it; Paradox is in the middle in my experience.) And it seems to me that the divisions here, and the divisive nature of the argument, are driven, not by anyone’s having some sycophantic ‘allegiance’ to a product (an accusation that ought never have been made), but by the amount of time they have invested in the game or in its beta development. It depends, in other words, on the way in which a person self-identifies either as a consumer, who expects a product to ‘work, damn it,’ or as a participant in development, who is perhaps a bit caught up in counting trees rather than in assessing the forest as a whole. (I am eminently familiar with the phenomenon at, e.g., Epinions, now Shopping.com / Deal Time, where I will doubtless in due course be reviewing this product, as the resident historian.) Both classes of person are, in my view, victims of an industry that chooses to release unfinished product and expects the consumer, or at least some consumers, in effect to act as unpaid quality control. It certainly makes for occasions, as here, of unnecessarily embittered discourse, and I cannot say that I, in my old-fogey fashion, care a right smart for it, on either side.

I agree whole heartedly.
 

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Just an update to my game. I thought I was doing ok until I got a dose of reality. By tryng to keep the budget balanced, I forgot what the game was about, and was not having much fun. Soon my POP were revolting like crazy, because I could not make any money to leave them in a sustainable tax system. I had all kind of factories, but I was strugling to keep them open and make any profit. My craftmen were merging, my clerks downgrading to laborers, lack of resources to produce anything.etc,etc. Then war hit, and I was streamrolled by austria's 124 divisions + bavaria's 54 and all her little allies. My 25 divisions were not match for the floods. Very soon austria had conquered most of prussia. Game over. I am frustrated now, 1.02 is not fun. The rules make not sense. At least as Prussia I should be able to decide between being stinking rich, or very powerful. 1.01 had both. 1.02 has none :(. Luckly I did not have to fight France :)

I have to choices: go back to 1.01 (at least is fun) or shelf Victoria for ever (I never thought I would say that about a Paradox game)
 

unmerged(21852)

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Wheels, you my friend, are a gem in this thread. Rarely have I ever seen so many good points being delivered in such a short manner. I'm backing you up 100% about the severly flawed economic system of 1.01 (and I really mean 1.01) and the ludicrous statements about what the majority or most or whatever feels about the game.

If anything was wrong with 1.01 aside from bugs it was the sheer volume of nearly everything on the WM that you needed. It was a cakewalk to become numero uno in industry by just go on a building frenzy the first years, upgrade the railroads and relax. It didn't fail because if you didn't have the raw materials, just go to the WM and buy everything you need in ridiculous amounts. Challanging for me? No. Historical according to me? No. Fun for me? HELL NO! With 1.02, the challanging for me has turned into a yes. Still not historical but loads more fun than with 1.01's extremely, severly and outright bad economic broadway champagne-a-like economic system. Yes, I would love to have a market with prices set according to the market and a whole lot more. I would, however, hate to see a trip back to Neverever land's happy economics a la 1.01.

Is it a pain for me to not being able to promote pops here and there whenever I want because of scarcity of paper or whatever? Yes. But instead of screaming like a schoolgirl in a bad horror movie about a broken game and how much I have the majority behind me I love the challange.

// Rico