My Comments about the 1.2 Patch All are Welcome to Post!

[Vharzul]

Ok i am glad that the 1.2 is out because it has obviusly solved problems such as events etc, but with this patch I feal has come some unwelcome guests!

As I wanted to test this patch really straight away, I started a new game as Prussia, and what a supprise I got oh man, this is bad..

I set the settings for taxes and all, Poor at 60% middle at around 55% and rich at around 80%, ok with that done I also put military spending down to Zero as well as navy and Defence spending down to the bare minimum..

Also raised Tariffs to 50%, ok then I also went to the WM and set thigns up thier to get for the 4 days coming I should have all materials.. for building factories and supporting other factories in what is required!

4 days ingame time pass, and what do I see, hardly any change I did get some thing that I needed, like the neccasry Iron and so on, but no machine parts, let alone enough Ammo shels to support my Gun industrie in Bradenburg, my factorie producing Ammo was at 100% yet could only yield I think around 0.50 or was is 0.25 unites every day, and I have to say that is pathetic, the same was for any other factorie, they jsut lacked and they couldnt get what they needed from the WM.

I went around 10 days forward and eventuly had enough parts to build, Another Steal factorie, Glass, Fabric, Paper factories also to update the Cement and Steal factories in Schliesen as well as the two factories in Brandenburg, at that stage jsut had enough money left due to a diplomatic deal with Austria for around 16k money for 1 tech which was luck, so I set up railroads now, because thier cheaper in recources thats great, yet they still cost the same darn price.. and if that isnt bad enough the materials needed for building Railnetwork wasnt really available as it should be..

Going on I spent the rest of the year, doing diplomatic deals if I could, because also now the DI has been changed now you can only get 2 DI per year, and thats is if you pardon my french (F**king laussie) should have left thew DI system as it was and not messed with it, now if I were in a war, I couldnt do any reall peace deal with my Dimplomats if things get hot.

I was able to get lvl 1 Railnetworks for around 50% of Prussia, I was lucky pop was going up due to me not having my taxes or any thing ells set too high, I got EArly Railroads in January 19th could have been 1st if I could have afforded to put the RR bar up the year before but I couldnt due to the low cost any way, i though that year 2 might get better as it always would be like in 1.1 but the year came with more dispointment with even less to chear about, the WM is still bad and I dont get enough in to supplie my factories at this tage I should be able to buy 4 fabric per day for my factorie, yet I cant because its extreamly rare, the same gose for multipul other recources such as machine parts or steal, or Ammo or cloaths etc etc etc..

All my factorie were built etc the the pop up msssages are great now so that i know that thier finished being built, but the problem lies that with this and factories being full now, is thier production output, is *Excuse french* F**king awfull, my fabric factorie even with a 10 pops working in it only produces at around 0.60 to 0.70 fabric and this is with EArly Railroad as well so this is dierly bad..

I look at my daily income for the nation and its only around 100 Creds per day if that, I play on and I increase factorie sizes in some cases, none go above 10 pop atm just at 10 pop and its now 1842 and im still making a messly 120 creds per day, I do have or managed to get the Best Healthcare money can buy, which is only costing me 33 per day but worth it, but in all I make around 265 and around 165 is expenses now and the rest profit, and the profit isnt even enough to buy a pare a boots for a Army soldier hahha :rofl:

so its that date of 1842 and im still in thier with a lowsy profit alough over those last few year,s I have managed to pry a few colonies away from The Netherlands with some teach in africa and got colonie now and just got 2 more of thier colonies, and thier unable to claim at the presant moment because I got the 2 they need but besides that, if also for Early Railroad in every singal Prussian and colonie provinces, yet it dosnt seem to be helping my RGO's to good atm nor dose it boost the factories sufficantly, so what to do?

The thinmking was that in the next 8-9 years until the German Conservative Empire event comes up, id have to try and stedaly build up military and jsut do more research, Diplomaticly I am happerd because of this new darn system or what ever Paradoyx has done to it.. I cant go to war because id get creamed and my economey wouldnt be able to support the 18 mobelized devisions at full streangth, I dont have the manpower to replenish them is I were in a war..

Its jsut one bad thing after another is seems, and I fea that when I do get the German Concervative Empire event and get the minor Germans, that it will take around 5 years to get every singal province hocked up with rail lol, the added cost onto the healthcare system as well as trying to build factories, which is kind of imposible seeing the WM is so crap now.

In my opinion this patch has solved alot of problem such as Uber country's more or less but the have been huge problems added that will not go away, My moto is if some thing isnt broke or works perfectly ok, you leave it, other wise it end up as the oposite of those 2, and in my view this is directly that case, I should be making around 400 creds or so per day right now, but im not because the recources arent available because other country in the world are havig the same problem and with that happening it has a sever consiquances for the player's nation i.e. mine or any one ellses in this community..

The game wasnt all that easy from the original 1.1 the things that had problems in thier you solved like events, CTD's and bugs etc and solving Über Austria, and UK etc but you shouldnt have fideld with thw WM, and id like to see a Emergancy patch with in the next few days, if posible for the 23 or shortly afterwards, to solve the WM problem as well as a few others.

I know that Paradox has been working hard on this patch amongst other things, and its greatly appreciated but I feal and I think that many more out thier in the Coomunity are extreamly unhappy about a few things at the currant moment, and seeing that we cant do any thing about it, isnt helping!

I fdear ill jsut have to leave this patch and go back to 1.1 until this matter is resolved, I rather play with a 60% working game rather then with only a 10% one, and for me the 1.1's WM and economy mostly worked fine, I did like the idea of having the recources that are needed for railbuild etc lowerd and the price staying, I dont have any objections about that but the profit that a Large country makes it just as if you playing a minor, and that isnt what its suppose to be like..

HF, and any one wishing to futher comment on any thing ive said or add or critsise, then go ahead, but please no big flaming or any thing, do show some dignaty and respect if your going to use a nasty word, do sensor it in some way so its not obvius to children or people that are easly offended lol..

 

[J.J.E.]

Well at least you can get a surplus...I've already posted my comments in the machine parts thread, and the conclusion is that economy is a mess in 1.02

 

[unmerged(21992)]

I'll tag on a complaint from my own thread: Partisans now appear to pop up at full strength and morale (that is, 10000 strength and, say, 45 or so morale), all the time. I've seen several partisans pop up on one occupied province. Even if I'd had a full-strength garrison there, the garrison would likely have been defeated by the instant 20,000 man citizen army (that just happens to be regulars as well!)

 

[Stingray]

I think the RGO expanding limit on uncivilised countries is a huge part of the problem. China, the worlds largest producer of coal, iron, silk, wood and exotic wood, can only have 5 pops in each RGO, compared to the 30 or so in 1.1. The reduced output in factories makes sure that nobody can export anything on the world market since the domestic market is eating it all up already. And the extreme shortages of clothes, paper and furniture, making it harder to get new craftsmen for your factories, makes sure that progress will be very slow indeed.

To me though, the changes would be plausible, if it wern't for the RGO expanding thingie, and the fact that raw-materials still aint worth sh*t.

 

[Vharzul]

OMFG, add this to the list of repaires, just went into my saved game were I am Japan, and im finding that if thier are revolts in Old China but not Japan, I get REvolt Army's of 10k troops hahah and another one at 2500 and another 2 at 10k each, this is geting worse, also my Industrial Cap with the income has halved lossing Indistrial standing in the world as well as Manpower then again im not worried about manpower in that game, but I am concerned in new games like the Prussia one above, it be extreamly hard to get Manpower also the revolts are gob smacking, some one posted above another topic saying some thing about REvolters at 10k Army each, haha I did know that Revolters cant get to full streangth threw re-enforcment any more but thats not an option any more, they just decide to pop up with 10k full armie size lol, boy its geting hot around here!


Also your about your comment JJE, as it is right now in my currant game as Prussia, im unable to get any more machine parts haha, this is geting worse by the minute.. let alone still not enough Ammo being made or that can be imported etc etc, list gose on and on..

Im seeing a vision of Paradox being extreamly or some what unhappy at this currant moment about some of our complaints lol, but which are true, seem as if we are taking part in an actual Beta test here lol, j/king about the Beta thingy here lol, but my gues is or wish it that they work on this problem and release a Emergancy patch for the 22nd or 23rd, these problems cant be that hard to fix.. I hope.
:rofl:

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

• The DI system is completely unchanged since 1.01. 2 DI as Prussia at peace is normal. (+1.0 default, +1.0 Great Power). Get higher prestige or go to war to get more DI/year. Exactly the same as in 1.01
• Overall income and expenses are down. Even so, "only" making a surplus of 100£/day still gives you 36,000£/year, which is more than enough for modest expansion and army improvements.
• Rapid industrialisation 1.01 style is hard to do for most nations now. That is intentional.

 

[J.J.E.]

• Rapid industrialisation 1.01 style is hard to do for most nations now. That is intentional.

What I don't understand is why the factory output is so low then? Since input is practically the same, it's almost impossible to achieve high rates of production, thus severely hampering the gameplay the first 20+ years. This is, IMHO, one of the major problems in the bad economic model of 1.02!

 

[Vharzul]

I can understand that some nations were rapidly expanding in 1.1 but dont forget that rapid Industrialization did take place, in some form or way, and as for DI, I have to check that again because I cant remember well see what happends when I go back to 1.1 but we did start out with 10 DI, and not 2 then agin that could be wrong lol, ill have to check hehehe.

Also 36000 per year isnt enough to do squat with, and any one know that, if your playing a big nation that is, if your playing a minor with only 1-4 provinces or a nation such as Switzerland then yes its acceptible but for Country's such as Prussia etc it should, in RL they didnt make Thousands they made millions per year pending on curcumstances, so dont say 36k is enough because wow, 2k for 1 Rail way upgrade in 1 province and the same gose for all province for the Eperimental Railway, then we come to 3k per province for Early Railnetwork, then the next one is around 4k for Iron i think, so you do the maths..

Im not the only person atm unhappy with all this.. try and do a poll today with diffrant sub polls to see what people like and dont like then youll see, wonder how many poeple will go back to 1.1 today..

Also it fine for you to say, oh go and get more Prestige and go to war, for one you need the darn Diplomat's to go to War, as well as have the Army and as I mentioned as much as i am managing to get at this moment in time profit which is only 100 if that per day, I canot afford to keep the Armie at full streangth let alone mobalize my extra troops plus i do not have the necassary MP, also most country are allied, around me, like the German minors are all inter Alliance,d including with Austria, so you can maybe see why thats not a plausable option at this moment in time or in the near future..

 

[unmerged(22150)]

Actually sounds right to me....

I haven't had a chance to play 1.02 yet, but a few thoughts...

I went around 10 days forward and eventuly had enough parts to build, Another Steal factorie, Glass, Fabric, Paper factories also to update the Cement and Steal factories in Schliesen as well as the two factories in Brandenburg, at that stage jsut had enough money left due to a diplomatic deal with Austria for around 16k money for 1 tech which was luck, so I set up railroads now, because thier cheaper in recources thats great, yet they still cost the same darn price.. and if that isnt bad enough the materials needed for building Railnetwork wasnt really available as it should be..

I don't think waiting 14 days to get the materials to build 4 factories and update 4 more is unreasonably long, in fact it may still be unreasonably short.

Its jsut one bad thing after another is seems, and I fea that when I do get the German Concervative Empire event and get the minor Germans, that it will take around 5 years to get every singal province hocked up with rail lol, the added cost onto the healthcare system as well as trying to build factories, which is kind of imposible seeing the WM is so crap now.

Again 5 years to build railroads over half of germany sounds OK to me. How long do you think it should take? Industrialization was hard. That's why it took as long as it did. Thje whole world wasn't industrialized by 1870 for a reason.

 

[dragonemp]

Now the game is no fun at all early on, tried Prussia, USA, finally give up...... then tried the biggest uncivilized country-china, wow...GOOD echonomy, but WHAT FOR? you can't do anything with all those money in your pocket.........

 

[Vharzul]

TonyF, I dont mind the extra waiting for a few days like 10 days on, but any more is redicules, you downlaod the patch and see for yourself instead of adding your opinion here before you dont relise how stressful these problems are!

hehe 5 Years to build up all Experimental Railöroads, yea right as if thats fair or Realistic, a powerful country such as UK, or Prussia or France can have it built with in 1 year, if they put the nessacry labour into the building.

Also you seem to forget or some do, that thiers a time limit in this sort of game, we only have 84-85 Years ingame time to reach what goles we can, and that includes the best for your nation, so you take them 5 years for building them Rails or more, just for that Experimental one, it extreamly long and tedius, also the lack of funds, due to your Industry not doing hardly any thing, i.e. being able to build enough to sustaine itself, and have the materials to built, its true i was extreamly lucky to have goten that money boost from selling tech, but that money isnt enough, or dosnt last long enough, so before you add your comment in I do recommend you applie the patch and find out what me and many others are on about and are unhappy about.

 

[JScott991]

36,000 a year is not enough to play this effectively when you must engage in debt repayment on loans in the millions taken during the early part of the game.

The intentional slowdown of industrialization intentionally makes the early portion of the game pointless. It is all about sitting there watching the days go by since the player cannot do anything.

Harder does not equal better when it severely reduces the game's time frame.

• The DI system is completely unchanged since 1.01. 2 DI as Prussia at peace is normal. (+1.0 default, +1.0 Great Power). Get higher prestige or go to war to get more DI/year. Exactly the same as in 1.01
• Overall income and expenses are down. Even so, "only" making a surplus of 100£/day still gives you 36,000£/year, which is more than enough for modest expansion and army improvements.
• Rapid industrialisation 1.01 style is hard to do for most nations now. That is intentional.

 

[Peter Ebbesen]

36,000 a year is not enough to play this effectively when you must engage in debt repayment on loans in the millions taken during the early part of the game.

That is, of course true. One logical conclusion one could draw would be not going several million into debt in order to finance an industrialisation effort one cannot afford. Alternatively, one could start using serious taxes and tariffs (if the government allows it, that is).

Now, I will certainly agree that that slows the early game expansion down significantly, and that I run the first few years at a much higher speed than before, researching techs and engaging in a bit of colonial warfare, perhaps, but not going all out building manufactories all over the place and colonising the known world. On the other hand, if what I really want is to play a nation that is industrialised with all the benefits that accrue to it, I am not forced to play 1836. I do have the option of playing 1861 for instance.

Risking my neck here, for those who say: "play 1.02 before you comment it" or "1.02 is woefully broken", I will add my own piece of advice: "play 1.02 for a couple of days before you conclude it is bad". You may still reach that conclusion, of course, but I cannot shake the feeling that at least some of the complaints are the natural consequence of the changed game environment, where what worked wonders yesterday is merely a mediocre strategy today.

 

[DGuller]

OK, Peter, see how plausible this is. No one is producing fabric. I build a factory and start producing fabric (very, very little). What do I see? Absolutely no profit. Doesn't it make sense that highly demanded good like fabric cost more so that factories don't freaken go out of business? This kind of stuff is everywhere. That's what you have when you simulate capitalistic economy with communistic ideals like price controls. I'm sorry, but this patch as it is is an unplayable disaster economics wise, and that opinion is pretty much uniform here among non-betas.

 

[unmerged(6618)]

Fair enough Peter, but it is also frustrating have to relearn an entire system with a new patch, without any clear logic to the new system. Granted I might be able to figure it out after 10 hours of gaming, but not everyone expects to have to retool their gaming to a system that is not immediately obvious. And it is still not obvious why taking over my economy as Denmark, I have numerous non-profit factories (including many unmanned factories) that either can't be run at all, or run at a zero to minimal proft, and am also running a debt load in the thousands, within a few years, despite making no real expenditures, except basic crime fighting and education.

I won't scream and shout too loud, but only because I am relying on my past experience with Paradox games, and things tend to settle out in later patches. But as it is now, the game certainly is not intuitive nor very fun. Taking over a country, any country, and being in financial ruin just does not sit right.

 

[DGuller]

Also, another stupidity that wasn't fixed in this patch is the input material stuff. You always get the maximum input if you have all the POPs working. If you don't have enough workers in POPs, then you don't output the maximum output. See a problem there? I'm sure that every factory owner in 1836 always ordered the same amount of raw materials, even if he only had enough workers to process 1/10th of them. For some reason Paradox thinks more populous POPs increase efficiency of production, instead of volume. Why, I have no frigging idea.

 

[Mordoch]

hehe 5 Years to build up all Experimental Railöroads, yea right as if thats fair or Realistic, a powerful country such as UK, or Prussia or France can have it built with in 1 year, if they put the nessacry labour into the building.

The problem here seems to be unrealistic player expectations!!! It certainly took more than 5 years for the UK to completely cover itself with railroads. Just what planet are some of these people complaining about this coming from here!

 

[unmerged(21992)]

That is, of course true. One logical conclusion one could draw would be not going several million into debt in order to finance an industrialisation effort one cannot afford. Alternatively, one could start using serious taxes and tariffs (if the government allows it, that is).

You're exaggerating a little. Under 1.01 it was never necessary to borrow that kind of money to do early industrialization, especially because of the mild shortage of machine parts early on. Now there's a lot fewer machine parts, so people don't even HAVE the option to go into a million dollar debt financing factory construction.

Now, I will certainly agree that that slows the early game expansion down significantly, and that I run the first few years at a much higher speed than before, researching techs and engaging in a bit of colonial warfare, perhaps, but not going all out building manufactories all over the place and colonising the known world. On the other hand, if what I really want is to play a nation that is industrialised with all the benefits that accrue to it, I am not forced to play 1836. I do have the option of playing 1861 for instance.

The primary benefit of industrialization is that you have the money and freedom to act in a way other than immediate survival. So what's the point in playing 1836? Just to get a marginal advance on the starting positions of 1861? I don't want to play 1836 at all if the game is balanced so that I'm not ahead of that point in 1861. Early development is the second-most boring part of the game (the most boring being very late game when you know that there's very little time left and no point in doing anything long-term).

Risking my neck here, for those who say: "play 1.02 before you comment it" or "1.02 is woefully broken", I will add my own piece of advice: "play 1.02 for a couple of days before you conclude it is bad". You may still reach that conclusion, of course, but I cannot shake the feeling that at least some of the complaints are the natural consequence of the changed game environment, where what worked wonders yesterday is merely a mediocre strategy today.

Point out a better strategy and I'll try it. And, no, before you say it, turning the speed up to "Extremely fast" does not count.

If the devs wanted to kill the industrialization process and make a very slow beginning-game in which even building a plain infantry division is a year-long endeavour of scrambling for small arms and canned food, then I think they've succeeded. But the fact that the devs succeeded isn't going to make the players like it more.

 

[Vharzul]

Hmmm, I dont know iof you know this Peter but, msot peple enjoy playing the GC due to its leagnth, not only because you have a much more direct controle over the natio youd play, but also make it stronge then it is in the 1914 scenario and bigger and powerfullre, those are jsut some aims that people play, dont think any one really playes the other scenarios or not many do any way, unless thiers a nation thier that they cant play in 1836 scenario, in which case they go to the 1836 scenario to the controling country and release it as a satelite.

You primerly play the GC to change things, unlike the 1914 scenario were its got the historic values etc alread thier, but the GC has a much vaster scope and allowes the player to make the crucial desictions and not have the Real Life Histroy forced down your throat more or less any way..

I do agree that some people do over react when patches come out and that some poeple dont like verius things, but as I see it every one in the Viky forum is perpetualy annoyed with the Economics now, and with good reason, what you said is true for other things such as military streangth or posible exploits that have been removed and poeple that used them exploits are the ones that will be ranting and be annoyed, but all or 95% of poeple in this forum are correct and are disgruntaled about this Economic problem, which is ruining every ones fun and gameing experience.

Also it dosnt take a couple of sdays to know if a patch with this sort of problem is good or not, because we know the asnwer alread, most poeple that have downlaoded the patch and played threw, and played verius nations a few times with in the last few hrs have come to the same agreement that this is bad, and badly planned out to say the least, I can garuntee that poeple who havent downlaoded it will come to a mear same or almsot same conclusion on this.

We do apreciate all the hard work etc gone in, like bug fixing and fixing events, and doing a few tweaks here and thier, but to bring such a large change that completly breaks the economic system of Viky down was extreamly bad, was new economic system even tested properly and extensivly..

Experiences pleayers including me are some what unhappy about the patch right now, I think the only thing that could pep us up is an emergancy patch, before x-mas that to sort this out. Like taking the ecoonomic part out and to leave the original as it was or assemd to work completly fine in my point of view and didnt need any thing changing.

That is, of course true. One logical conclusion one could draw would be not going several million into debt in order to finance an industrialisation effort one cannot afford. Alternatively, one could start using serious taxes and tariffs (if the government allows it, that is).

Em that seems unrealistic for the simple fact that if you rise the taxes, and tarrifs to high to around 90% which is the likely case in 1.2 then that means your pop is either dieing or leaving your nation, also that means your middle class will dispear so bye bye Clerks which give a great boost to industry, and all your left with is poor, in that being soldiers and Craftsman and farmers and labourors etc, and thier not going to hang around your nation when they can get a much esear living in the US or some were ells in Europe, so for example, from a 14 million Prussian pop you wait for around 30 years and end up with around oh lts say 7-10 million poeple left thats no were near the ammount needed to keep your nation up or run the factories, and wihtoiut having any Clearks thiers no point either, because thier the most figety poelpe in the entire game that leave first if things are to high.. so you at a comeplte block and at the end of the game because you well crippled..

Also inlcudes posible war's revolts, no reall military to go with etc, and you end up with (Nothing at all!)

 

[Mozart41st]

I never really got a reply to this in the other thread, so I will post it here.

 [color=white]
- You no longer lose your primitive status merely by becoming a great power.
[/color]

Arrrgh! Where did this come from? How can you become civilized now? I recall before 1.02 came out all of the discussion was focused on ways to make it easier to become civilized. For example, many posters suggested it should be the top 15 rather than just the top 8. This is bad bad bad bad and combined with all of the new changes to "nerf" uncivilized nations (which are inexplicable in and of themselves) renders nations like Korea or Hyperabad all but unplayable.

Don't get me wrong, I love Paradox, I love Paradox, I love Paradox. I appreciate all of their hard work and the hard work of the betas, but.....ARRRGH!!!