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manager2525

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Oct 27, 2012
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Around 700 hours in imperator here. Of course I am aware of the current status. No new content in 2021 and we can hopefully see from that point on etc. It might not be the best time for such a thread but here it goes.

If a had to choose one part of the game that I think is lacking the most I would choose diplomacy. For sure I would like additional content but that is not something that has been implemented bad and needs change rather that is, at the moment lacking in general.
Furthermore if I try to make the problem of poor diplomacy more specific my biggest issue is how alliances are forged at the moment (or not forged to be more accurate). AI seems really skeptical in creating alliances. A huge Rome is threatening Macedon while a strong Carthage still exists... nope you will never see a Macedonian Carthaginian alliance (I do believe that was once one the most important Roman fears). Also no historical alliances like Pergamon or Rhodes with Rome in order to avoid the jaws of the Diadochi, no Greek plea for help to Midthridates etc. The human player can find ways around this but the AI more often than non stays a sitting duck unable to have any significant alliances and just stoicly waiting to be gobbled up by the player.
Although I haven't played EUIV for quite I while I remember the AI being super active in trying to find meaningful alliances. I wish we could have something like this also in Imperator. Maybe due to the time period the diplomatic entanglement should be less complicated but still in no way as simple as it is currently in the game.

I would be interested to know if you have the same view on diplomacy or there is any other aspect of the game you really feels that needs changing.
 
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I have to agree that diplomacy is not interesting and complete enough. Sadly, most is hardcoded and can't be modded well, it at all.
 
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I also concur. Diplomacy seems very light in Imperator. Very small states make a collection of themselves in a defensive pact fairly frequently but they're still weak. Smaller states will often have a patron (Athens if independent will latch on to one of the Diadochi for example). But, major powers rarely ally. Though, I have seen Ptolemaic Egypt and Carthage pair up moderately frequently.

I think the "competing country" tag comes out way too frequently. Rome will happily ally with a weak Athens as it approaches Greece. But, it won't ally with a stronger Antigonids, even if they have nigh-nothing in Greece and just want to join in beating up Macedon.

This is an area for improvement for sure.
 
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I think the problem is distance, the AI seem to be only contemplate ally with nation that border them or at least really close to them so you would never see Macedon-Carthage alliance but Egypt-Carthage will be more frequent.

But this isn't simple problem that can be solve easily I think cuz if they lift the restriction it probably lead to some nonsensical ally in other direction too lol
 
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I have to agree that diplomacy is not interesting and complete enough. Sadly, most is hardcoded and can't be modded well, it at all.

Thats a shame, I was really hoping you would be able to work your magic also regarding diplomacy! :confused:

I also concur. Diplomacy seems very light in Imperator. Very small states make a collection of themselves in a defensive pact fairly frequently but they're still weak. Smaller states will often have a patron (Athens if independent will latch on to one of the Diadochi for example). But, major powers rarely ally. Though, I have seen Ptolemaic Egypt and Carthage pair up moderately frequently.

I think the "competing country" tag comes out way too frequently. Rome will happily ally with a weak Athens as it approaches Greece. But, it won't ally with a stronger Antigonids, even if they have nigh-nothing in Greece and just want to join in beating up Macedon.

This is an area for improvement for sure.

I agree 100% about the competing power modifier. Even if the two major powers have no common borders and no reason not to ally you never see them do so (even if it is against their best intereast).
 
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I can certainly agree on diplomacy, it's one of the key mechanics that ware sadly left with so much untapped potential.
As a character and nation game, something unique to Imperator among PDX games, there is great capacity for intrigue-based diplomacy which has repercussions across an actual state.

That said, my personal biggest gripe with the game would probably be trade, I simply automate everything to not deal with it at all, such is my dissatisfaction with it.
 
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Wouldn't simple rival system copied form EU4 somewhat solve this problem? e.g if Rome rivals Carthage and Macedon, they get a bonus to relations "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and try to ally each other. I always thought it worked fairly well in EU4 (although it could be sometimes annoying with frequent megawars for not much land gained, so it needs to be balanced properly).
 
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Wouldn't simple rival system copied form EU4 somewhat solve this problem? e.g if Rome rivals Carthage and Macedon, they get a bonus to relations "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and try to ally each other. I always thought it worked fairly well in EU4 (although it could be sometimes annoying with frequent megawars for not much land gained, so it needs to be balanced properly).
Imperator:Rome seems to have something vaguely akin to the "rival" system of EU4. But, its just anyone who could be a "rival" is a competing power.

Given the way Imperator:Rome works, I'd rather see a few hardcoded rivalries in the game (Rome v. Carthage -- most of the Diadochi with each other -- I'm sure there are others) and I'd seek to reduce the semi-forced nature of rivals happening.

I mean, lets examine what has happened in one of my recent games:

I played to make an early Crete. Rome allied me semi-early, just as I was uniting the island. I got called into every petty war of theirs in Italy, despite limited capabilities to help them. I did sink Syracuse's fleet for them. I only called Rome in to help me break the Antigonids who had won over Macedon and remade themselves as Macedon. Rome got everything Illyrian and Macedonian. I got everything Greek and Epirote. It seemed like a splendid arrangement. But, I tripped over to a Major Power and Rome did not become a Great Power, so rather than just losing the alliance, they actually went to "competing power" and got that terrible -1000 modifier to doing anything positive with you because they're "plotting your demise". Mercifully I was able to ally Egypt so Rome was afraid to fight me. But, it was still a silly change. With the rival system from EU IV, this stuff happens exactly the same, you power up and allies dump you cause they suddenly rival you. Your best chance at times is to grow through it so you're too big to be their rival anymore...then they love you.....so weird and forced/artificial.

If we're going to have a rivalry system, I'd like to see it come from something like competing merchants or the like. I mean, for ages Carthage and Rome co-existed splendidly. Then, once Roman merchants started to actually leave Italia, the Carthaginians were worried about Rome, because Rome was honing in on their thing. Perhaps every country should have "a thing" that sets them off.

Rome --> at first Rome is concerned with others being in Italia. Perhaps this shifts to concerns with a different land mass once Italia is secured fully. Rome is supposed to be greedy a bit so this would make sense. Eventually I think when Rome is a Great Power, they should be opposed to all other great powers. I mean, what did drive Rome to fight the Antigonids in the end? Simply them being perceived as a great power still.

Carthage --> definitely trade

Egypt --> perhaps too much cultural greatness, building wonders and the like?

Migratory tribes --> weak civilized states nearby spur raids, strong civilized states spur flight or perhaps a light infantry swarm ignoring forts and sacking cites, like a player can do with them.

I don't have answers for all the states. But, I bet you could make a good case for most countries which went on to be major powers having something.
 
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Wouldn't simple rival system copied form EU4 somewhat solve this problem? e.g if Rome rivals Carthage and Macedon, they get a bonus to relations "enemy of my enemy is my friend" and try to ally each other. I always thought it worked fairly well in EU4 (although it could be sometimes annoying with frequent megawars for not much land gained, so it needs to be balanced properly).
Rather than a rival system, I think there could be a more nuanced influence and threat system for smaller nations that puts great powers in a collision route.
So a small nation which feels threatened by a great power could seek support from another great power and trigger conflicts over influence in the region.
Like the tug of war between Rome and Carthage over Sicily, or how Greek city states sparked the Macedonian Wars.
 
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Rather than a rival system, I think there could be a more nuanced influence and threat system for smaller nations that puts great powers in a collision route.
So a small nation which feels threatened by a great power could seek support from another great power and trigger conflicts over influence in the region.
Like the tug of war between Rome and Carthage over Sicily, or how Greek city states sparked the Macedonian Wars.
Yes the whole 1st Punic War was in theory about the rights of the Mammertines in Messana, a single province minor, right? Imperator has a Mammertine Republic, right?
 
Imperator has a Mammertine Republic, right?
I've seen it a few times. I have no idea if the war actually starts as it did in reality, however. The Roman mission tree eventually leads to you declaring war against Carthage with an imperial challenge CB.
 
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I've seen it a few times. I have no idea if the war actually starts as it did in reality, however. The Roman mission tree eventually leads to you declaring war against Carthage with an imperial challenge CB.
Its been so long since I played Rome I didn't know that it gave the imperial challenge CB now. I should play Rome again eventually. But, I've been enjoying doing weird small country things and picking up all remaining achivements. I only have 2 that can be earned left (and the destroy wonders one which apparently can not, even if you can make the AI make 10 wonders).