My attempt at WC.

[hauptman]

Why is forming the HRE the fail?

You loose out on 2 dip relations, all the nifty free vassals, have to do all the micro management war fighting yourself (horribly tedious and not fun), and the aformentioned diprep.

Diprep is only important for france atm... Once I can finally vassalize that fool, I can revoke the privilage and vassalize the remainder of the non monarchist HRE states. Russia has hit 90 tax base, even with me growing (and building) Currently sitting on 2000 tax base myself. The -100 can never be overcome for vassalizing him. Coupled with this current 14 year regency. This will not be a 100% WC.

My plan has been so far, to abuse alliance webs to get wars against those who are in a coalition. Without fighting that coalition. Not one single coalition war has happened, and some people really really hate me.

That plan requires constant little wars to be effective. Now... I will be looking at one mammoth war to catch up in time. Which will likely put me in the position where NOONE will not be in the coalition... Uhhhg.

 

[Bibor]

You loose out on 2 dip relations, all the nifty free vassals, have to do all the micro management war fighting yourself (horribly tedious and not fun), and the aformentioned diprep.

Diprep is only important for france atm... Once I can finally vassalize that fool, I can revoke the privilage and vassalize the remainder of the non monarchist HRE states. Russia has hit 90 tax base, even with me growing (and building) Currently sitting on 2000 tax base myself. The -100 can never be overcome for vassalizing him. Coupled with this current 14 year regency. This will not be a 100% WC.

My plan has been so far, to abuse alliance webs to get wars against those who are in a coalition. Without fighting that coalition. Not one single coalition war has happened, and some people really really hate me.

That plan requires constant little wars to be effective. Now... I will be looking at one mammoth war to catch up in time. Which will likely put me in the position where NOONE will not be in the coalition... Uhhhg.

I presume you go with "+5 base tax" buildings in all provinces for vassalization, or is this even neccessary?

 

[hauptman]

I presume you go with "+5 base tax" buildings in all provinces for vassalization, or is this even neccessary?

this game, no. Not neccesary. But as someone like italy, or other non super diprep nation yes you have to...

I'm only building level 1 buildings. No need to go higher, most of my income comes from external sources (vassals, peace deals, looting). My admin points, dip points, and mil points are being used for conquest. Dowing somone every couple years with NO cb is a lot of stab hits, peace deals require a crapton of dip, and as I sit on uncored territory while it converts, or waits to sell, requires a lot of harsh treatment... I'm getting rather behind in tech atm. Even lost the expansion CB vs some indians (because they match me tech wise).

 

[Nadrak]

I really do not get how did you diplovassalise Castile and Portugal. In my Austria - > HRE game I formed HRE in like 1580 with a huge land already taken from France, but the tax difference was still so big I even almost could not diplo vassalise Naples. I had all the required + diplo things like diplomacy, exploration, advisor etc.

 

[hauptman]

I really do not get how did you diplovassalise Castile and Portugal. In my Austria - > HRE game I formed HRE in like 1580 with a huge land already taken from France, but the tax difference was still so big I even almost could not diplo vassalise Naples. I had all the required + diplo things like diplomacy, exploration, advisor etc.

All I can say, is no, you didnt.

did you control the Ivory? Did you have the diprep that you get from being emperor, no because you formed the HRE. Did you spend decades building trust? probably not.

Just because it's possible, doesnt mean it's easy.

 

[RMcD94]

He explained earlier:

Base tax caps at -90

+40 from trust
+20 from military power
+10 from friendly/threatened
+21 from diplomatic relations

That's why the -3 is so important from the second last imperial reform.

I also completely agree that there is next to no benefit to forming the HRE:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?734097-Why-would-you-ever-form-the-HRE

At most you make slightly more money which is not a problem, while losing out on massive amounts of troops, ships and specialized minors (such as Netherlands colonizing for you, Brandenburg/Prussia fighting for you), as well as all the HRE merchants pulling trade in from around the globe (50 merchants beats 5).

The primary benefit is that you can literally just declare war repeatedly on numerous countries one after another and then sit back and wait for them to reach 100%.

 

[hauptman]

After sitting through about 10 years of mind numbing, frustraying nothingness... it finally happens, both Russia and Bengal start wars and drag me in. Whalla there's the trust I need for France, Now I just need the regency to end, to refill my Legitimacy. I start a crash infantry build program, to get the 20 military points. well over 150k troops drain my manpower as well as my bank account. The new king gains the throne, and whalla.....



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Afterwards, I start 4 concurent wars, and let my minions run wild... I'm out of manpower so I dont even bother helping... with the exception of landing on Bahrain to vassalize a OPM Najd. Then it hits again, the limiting factor isnt manpower, or money, or time. It's diplo points. I can get nowhere near enough land in the peace deals. So i have some folks released, or demand piddly concessions... Man I need to stop buying diplo tech I guess.

After the wars, and I hand off the land we did get, I head to the main office of the HRE. Fill out the rquisite forms, and Revoke the Privilage. I now have little need for diprep. But now I've vassalized the remainder of the HRE minors.





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And this is where I stand just prior to 1700.



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My mil tech is 22, dip tech 16, and likely wont go higher.

 

[hauptman]

One other aspect of the vassal hordes that may not be plainly obvious. They go EVERYWHERE! The ai has no qualms about asking 15 nations for military access. After I annexed syria to add him to the empire, I found a stack of 9k troops standing in Korea.

I have access through russia, which gives me contact with most asian nations... But I'm definatly going to abuse the vassals willingness to do that for indochina.

Then france spain portugal and england can finally prove their naval worth for the archipelago.

 

[TheBloke]

Very awesome.

You won't do it this time. But I wouldn't bet against you after one or two more attempts

 

[RMcD94]

Question: Are you remembering to always rival before a peace deal for the lowered demand cost?

 

[hauptman]

Question: Are you remembering to always rival before a peace deal for the lowered demand cost?

NOPE!~

/kicks self.

 

[TheBloke]

NOPE!~

/kicks self.

A little part of me just died inside.

 

[RMcD94]

NOPE!~

/kicks self.

Aaaaaaah, that's a shame. It's pretty much always useful, even when you're getting the other demand cost lowering from ideas. It takes 50 down to 33. So even if you demand one thing it's worth it

 

[unmerged(798670)]

I'm pretty sure you just needed to work on expanding outside of Europe militarily much sooner and from the look of your 1600-1700 expansion you could probably have done with an extra beachhead or two. Having all of the territory left to conquer at the end right next to each other isn't ideal, even if it takes a little longer to get it into the HRE and released again.

 

[hauptman]

The early game was all about securing a power base capable of a mad conquest spree, and be damned the coalitions.... IE, vassalizing europe.

The wars have been easy/steady and my only limiting factor is diplo points. I've since expanded to about 2/3 of india, and got a hold in indo china, and it's only been about 5-10 years. An annexation spree just cleared more room for new vassals, which include the native americans.

 

[hauptman]

Aaaaaaah, that's a shame. It's pretty much always useful, even when you're getting the other demand cost lowering from ideas. It takes 50 down to 33. So even if you demand one thing it's worth it

everything already costs me 37, but if it lowers it more (i have never paid attention to cost!~) that would be nice.

 

[hauptman]

I am dreading getting back in after nappy time... as soon as I finish my current war, that will be the end of "no coalitions". I doubt anyone will not join after this one.

 

[hauptman]

1715, Just finished a war with all of asia. half of it was Russia's war so I could get anything from that. But I've cut India in two, and gotten my hold on Indochina and the southern chinese coast.




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There is now no one to dow that is not in the coalition (minus russia, africa, and iriquois) And I'm holding too much OE to start a new war, nationalist sentiment triggers are teh suck.

 

[RMcD94]

everything already costs me 37, but if it lowers it more (i have never paid attention to cost!~) that would be nice.

Yes it would reduce it -33% from rival plus wherever you're getting that -25% from.

I'm pretty sure my demands have been as low as 10.

Also I am surprised Indonesia is in the coalition and are you making sure to employ the better relations guy?

 

[hauptman]

1734, The turks finally left the coalition, bad for them. Bad for me because again I didnt have enough diplo points to really get much from him, But Iraq and the Mamlucks are almost out of the game. Persia has as well been beat down to 2 provinces. The indian theater still progresses but slowly, due to coalitions. Nations are joining and dropping like crazy, so everyonce in a while someone will leave when they have all the right allies.




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I've got time for 2 more vassal clears, so india/asia in one go, then finally the non HRE europeans. Currently working on espionage ideas for yet another diplomat.


It's going to be me and russia alone in the world once I hit that HRE button. He still doesnt have my dynasty, so a PU is out of the question.