'Must not marry an infidel'

[Fishy101]

I despise lowborn Spam but ran across an example of the lowborn over the princess today http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_I_of_Portugal

Daughter of a noble and a descendant of a king. Not sure she was a lowborn. But I'm sure this kind of thing happened.

 

[Velg]

Daughter of a noble and a descendant of a king. Not sure she was a lowborn. But I'm sure this kind of thing happened.

Quite a big fraction of nobles would be lowborn in the terms of CK II - I imagine those random generated courtiers are descendants of small nobility rather than peasants.

 

[Mohe]

If PDX is bent on nerfing marriage, they could start by removing the global list of potential spouses and instead make "mate hunting" a courtier province mission. Also make "self promotion" a decision available when marriage is set as the ambition. So, everyone sends out their courtiers into specific lands to look for hot deals (each courtier type will first spot chars with the corresponding stat as the main strength), while back home they hold some events to raise the profile of themselves or their offspring to put them on the neighbour's map and make them easier to detect by the visiting courtiers.
Maybe the system will actually work as the means to peddling away idiots, while you hide your best bachelors until some huge tracks of land are spotted on the horizon. :ninja:

this would be fantastic

 

[b_raven]

+1 to OP

 

[Orko80]

Quite a big fraction of nobles would be lowborn in the terms of CK II - I imagine those random generated courtiers are descendants of small nobility rather than peasants.

I always thought so that they where 'lesser' Nobel's rather than straight up Peasons or Burgher.

 

[Velg]

I always thought so that they where 'lesser' Nobel's rather than straight up Peasons or Burgher.

Yeah, and I enjoy having Nobel Peace Prize in my family (you can't imagine how much it does for PR!), however small. That's why I marry them

Sorry, had to.

 

[TheGreatSnoop]

Is it still possible for Catholics to marry Orthodox Christians?

 

[thegreatjam]

Is it still possible for Catholics to marry Orthodox Christians?

Yes this is still possible. In fact all christians can marry the different denominations of christianity

 

[TheGreatSnoop]

Yes this is still possible. In fact all christians can marry the different denominations of christianity

Awesome, thanks.

 

[DJ_handsfree]

I also agree. My motivations for this have most certainly been said by others. Interreligous purchase of wives FTW!

 

[Pte Baldrick]

Yes this is still possible. In fact all christians can marry the different denominations of christianity

Yeah. Marrying a Sunni for diplomatic reasons, and because you both have 100 relations? Completely out of the question! Marrying a Cathar despite the fact that you're massacring them in a horrid bloodbath? No problems there.

 

[nitroholic]

Maybe the ability to marry outside of your faith could be tied to the 'cultural flexibility' tech. The higher it gets the less of penalty and farther away you can marry.

 

[Mikebloke]

I haven't had much chance to play the latest patch but I normally do mixed religious marriages, so if this is the case then its

I guess some restrictions could help, traditionally a Muslim Woman can't marry a non-Muslim man but a Muslim man can marry a Christian (or Jewish, not relevant in CKII) Woman. I assume there is something similar in Christianity against marrying pagans, etc.

Edit: Just to confirm, I'd like to see at least some rollbacks from a total ban on mixed marriages, if not a total reverse back to what it was.

 

[misterslack]

Just posting that I agree with this 100%. I think it's ridiculous that the "must not marry an infidel" penalty prevents *all* inter-faith marriages. If paradox really feels that way, then why isn't there a penalty for marrying orthodox/catholic?

My suggestion would be to lessen this penalty to make it difficult, but not impossible, to marry to another faith.

Edit: Non-reformed pagan religions shouldn't have an infidel marriage penalty at all. The whole point of being non-reformed is that the religion is not strictly defined, such that there really is no such thing as an "infidel" yet.

 

[Novalith]

Okay, let's see, how I would make it...


Catholics
to orthodox and miaphysite: minimal reluctance
to heretics: strong reluctance
to heathens: strong reluctance

Orthodox and miaphysite:
to the other main christians: minimal reluctance
to heretics: moderate reluctance
to heathens: strong reluctance

disorganised pagans:
to disorganized pagans: no problem
to anyone else: minimal reluctance

organized pagans:
other pagans: minimal reluctance
to anyone else: moderate reluctance

Zoroastrians: (only applies if not same dynasty)
Mazdaism: minimal reluctance (and vice versa)
to anyone else: strong reluctance

Manichaeism:
Zoroastrians/Mazdaism: no problem
to anyone else: moderate reluctance

Muslims:
Heresies of same faith: moderate reluctance
Shia to Sunni and vice versa (including heresies): strong reluctance
Christians and Zoroasterians: strong reluctance
Pagans: extream reluctance / impossible


In short:
- Pagans don't really care
- Christians are okay with other Christians (at varying degrees) but don't like non-christians
- Zoroasterians don't like interfaith marriages. Exceptions are the Manichaeians who are way more tolerant, thus the "true Zoroastrians" don't want to marry with them either
- Muslims don't like Christians and Zoroasterians just as much as the other way around but they also don't like the other sect (hey, the whole thing between Sunny and Shia started with a succession dispute...). Since being a Pagan is an offense punishable by death, I think this combination can stay impossible (unless the Pagan takes the Muslim mate prisoner, you know the routine)

Something like this. I see this poster put an awful lot of thought into this. I concur. +1

 

[Petrus58]

CK II is a medieval flavoured game. A great game, but not one which offers plausible, 'what-if' history. If it did, then so many aspects would have to be changed, and others added that I doubt many would want to play it. So with that in mind, yes, make it possible with a heavy penalty.

 

[Ruwaard]

Marrying an infidel should definitely not be standard, but maybe when a ruler is a dire situation political considerations could be positive enough to make it allowable. Though only under specific circumstances, like a ruler is in need of help and that infidel ruler would be a very valuable ally.

 

[unmerged(112259)]

Okay, let's see, how I would make it...


Catholics
to orthodox and miaphysite: minimal reluctance
to heretics: strong reluctance
to heathens: strong reluctance

Orthodox and miaphysite:
to the other main christians: minimal reluctance
to heretics: moderate reluctance
to heathens: strong reluctance

disorganised pagans:
to disorganized pagans: no problem
to anyone else: minimal reluctance

organized pagans:
other pagans: minimal reluctance
to anyone else: moderate reluctance

Zoroastrians: (only applies if not same dynasty)
Mazdaism: minimal reluctance (and vice versa)
to anyone else: strong reluctance

Manichaeism:
Zoroastrians/Mazdaism: no problem
to anyone else: moderate reluctance

Muslims:
Heresies of same faith: moderate reluctance
Shia to Sunni and vice versa (including heresies): strong reluctance
Christians and Zoroasterians: strong reluctance
Pagans: extream reluctance / impossible


In short:
- Pagans don't really care
- Christians are okay with other Christians (at varying degrees) but don't like non-christians
- Zoroasterians don't like interfaith marriages. Exceptions are the Manichaeians who are way more tolerant, thus the "true Zoroastrians" don't want to marry with them either
- Muslims don't like Christians and Zoroasterians just as much as the other way around but they also don't like the other sect (hey, the whole thing between Sunny and Shia started with a succession dispute...). Since being a Pagan is an offense punishable by death, I think this combination can stay impossible (unless the Pagan takes the Muslim mate prisoner, you know the routine)

As someone already said, some nice thoughts in this post. I think if you can add in some flexibility to any base stats on a structure like this that would be good:

Maybe the ability to marry outside of your faith could be tied to the 'cultural flexibility' tech. The higher it gets the less of penalty and farther away you can marry.

Something like that could be used by the player to guide the base rule set?

Edit: If someone could tell me where the "-2" should go in the files to allow marriages i'd be keen to have a look around and see what i can some up with?

 

[Prince Michael]

I really hope that this gets fixed with the new patch which (obviously) comes with the Celtic Faces.

 

[BishopCornelius]

Maybe it would work better with a distance rule, where people can marry people with another religon if they live in close proximity(for example regions like Scandinavia, Iberia, Central Europe, British isles). For example it does not make sense for the King of England to marry a seljuk woman, but a Spanish King might marry a Muslim Andalusian woman. And a Christian Danish woman would probably marry a Norse Norwegian man. Historically this makes more sense than a absolutist Can or Can not marry infidels rule.

I agree with this but you'd have to be careful not to stretch the distance thing too far, because then it'd be hard to do things that were totally historical like the marriage between Catholic French King Henry I & Orthodox Russian Anna of Kiev (Rurikovitch daughter of Yaroslav the Wise)