Im not playing as muslim very often, but isnt it ahistorical? I thought islam doesn't allow interest and there's special islamic banking. Maybe muslims should have other mechanisms how to obtain money when going into red. Something like special tax or currency debasement. It would be similar to loan, the difference should be stability hit or increased revolt risk.
Muslims taking loans?
- Thread starter AnguyTheArcher
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It would be awesome if you could only voluntarily take loans at negative piety, and involuntarily taking one dropped your piety by 50% or something.
I'm pretty sure Muslims took loans just like anyone, but piety-influencing events which occur when you're in debt would be nice flavor.
Well, historically, Ottomans were too loan happy and this went to the point of being unable to pay even the interests of the loans, which led to bankruptcy and total crash. I am sure Muslims would take loans too.
Christianity doesn't allow loans either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Old_Testament
That didn't stop them though
Basically, loans exist in islamic law, even if it is not labelled like that. It is a system mainly like : you give my X money and I give you x(1+interest rate) money back. It's a sale and buy back agreement. See here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_banking
Christianity doesn't allow loans either: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury#Old_Testament
That didn't stop them though
Yes, but in this era it was already normal. I think muslims did it less often (and it's much less common even today) - I'm not sure of course. To the poster who said Ottos historicallytook a lot of loans - was this during their golden age or later when they were under western influences? Because westernization in game could modify the mechanics and allow them to take regular loans.
Wouldn't you just rationalize it as taking loans from non-Muslims? Don't the restrictions on usury prohibit lending, rather than taking out a loan?
Islam doesn't allow drinking alcohol, either, yet Suleiman the Lawgiver's successor was known as Selim the Sot (= Drunkard).
There is no real difference between Islam and Christianity regarding usury and money lending. The only difference is that today Christians don´t care but some Muslims still do.
Islamic Banks DO charge for their services, they just do it through a complex system of exchanges and never call it interest.
As an arab muslim guy I can say that it exists, when I was a kid I read some stories about ppl asking for loans in small/medium/large cities ( Not in berber communities since they were communities ) also Medicis family asked for 20K ducas loan to a morrocan king so ...
But there are many ahistorical things in the game :
-Jizya was a tax on non-muslim ppls you're not supposed to loose piety for this + that North african countries were very tolerant and had 1/10 of their population as non musmlims ( Or at least that was the case in Morroco )
-Ceuta was/is a very very small port/city far from the 8 base tax of the city
-Casablanca didn't exist
-Many of berber countries were just full of vassals since they were formed by tribes and it was hard to control them, and some times the king even gave independency to some cities like Salé Capitol of barbary Pirates ( That actually stole a lot of trade from America so GIVE US A NODE PLS)
And I can make 6/5 other points about how Morroco AI is wrong and how North African countries are not well designed ( For example almost every morrocan king was a son of a women from the harem so we had a Georgian king a Black king etc ) , but it's a game and developpers can't do full focus on every state/religion so ...
But there are many ahistorical things in the game :
-Jizya was a tax on non-muslim ppls you're not supposed to loose piety for this + that North african countries were very tolerant and had 1/10 of their population as non musmlims ( Or at least that was the case in Morroco )
-Ceuta was/is a very very small port/city far from the 8 base tax of the city
-Casablanca didn't exist
-Many of berber countries were just full of vassals since they were formed by tribes and it was hard to control them, and some times the king even gave independency to some cities like Salé Capitol of barbary Pirates ( That actually stole a lot of trade from America so GIVE US A NODE PLS)
And I can make 6/5 other points about how Morroco AI is wrong and how North African countries are not well designed ( For example almost every morrocan king was a son of a women from the harem so we had a Georgian king a Black king etc ) , but it's a game and developpers can't do full focus on every state/religion so ...
Nop just that muslim countries were far from being pious, full of people trying to backstab their enemies to get the power.
That every new king had to get recognized as a king by every tribe. And if he coudln't the only choice left was unification of the country through wars.
Also we get somehow awfull leaders while that was not the case, basically getting 0/2/0 leader while morroco was only focusing on conquest and almost nothing diplo until they had a direct border with ottomans, seems weird.
That every new king had to get recognized as a king by every tribe. And if he coudln't the only choice left was unification of the country through wars.
Also we get somehow awfull leaders while that was not the case, basically getting 0/2/0 leader while morroco was only focusing on conquest and almost nothing diplo until they had a direct border with ottomans, seems weird.
Just because the Islam forbids something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Hypocrisy is pretty much synonymous with Religion.
It is not about nerfing but uniqueness and accuracy. Naturally, if some religion or culture loses something, they get something brand new in return.
It has nothing to with religion: no matter what kind of law it is, religious or secular, people will ignore it if it benefits them. Law is only strictly followed if someone forces you to do so.