Muslims OP? :P

[NI_Mcknight]

This has really began to frustrate me, everytime there is a battle between a crusading army and a Fatmid army on even terms or even in favour of the Crusaders the Muslims win, I have never once seen a succesful crusade for Jerusalem. I admit, I am posting this after being crushed by the Fatmid. Okay so I have 9500 men 1000 of which are retinue heavey Knights and I also have the 'Saxon Band' mercenaries. The Fatmid have 10k men don't know their specifics. I was on the defensive and had a terrain advantage, my army was evenly spread out on all three flanks with my Generals stats being 20,22,20. The Fatmid on the other hand had all their men in the centre and a general with 10 martial skill, I thaught omg I'm actually going to win a battle, but no he took about 700 casualties and I lost around half of my army.
My facial expression was along the lines of, whilst the Fatmids were like. So am I doing something wrong? Are there any hidden combat details I am missing?




If any of this comes of as racist, I apologise it was not my intention.

 

[DLFebin]

They have better technology, that's why.

 

[NI_Mcknight]

They have better technology, that's why.

To such an extent that I can't beat them despite all my advantages? That seems quite ridiculous tbh.

 

[DLFebin]

They probably had Mamlukes too, or a general with good martial traits. And you actually can see what troops there were, at least in Win/Lose screen and the battle screen itself, no?

 

[Comradebot]

Fatimids=/=All Muslims

They are the exception. Watch the rest of the world: typically, every non-Fatimid/Egypt state will fall well before the game ends. Even if Iberia falls to the Andalusians, it'll get crushed by France and/or the HRE, who will then typically (if they haven't already) steamroll North Africa and even Mali.


The Fatimids are over-powered. As a whole, Muslims are underpowered.

 

[DLFebin]

Fatimids are too stable at the beginning, that's the problem, yep.

 

[Hootieleece]

They out numbered your center "Flank" and over whelmed it.Probably due to large number of archers in Skirmish phase.It then defeated the rest of the Army in detail.

10000 men fighting 3000-3500 WILL have significant advantages with the current combat system.Victory goes to the bigger battalions.

I know you said you had all the advantages but there is a little thing called "luck" and you got bad "dice rolls"

 

[Comradebot]

They probably had Mamlukes too, or a general with good martial traits. And you actually can see what troops there were, at least in Win/Lose screen and the battle screen itself, no?

This too. Actual martial skill is nice, but against/without the right special military skills, it isn't such a huge factor. A guy with 20 martial but a craven will fold even with a numerical advantage against a general with 12 martial and is an inspiring leader.


And Mamelukes (or even Hashashin) tend to mean Horse Archers abound. They will absolutely slaughter you those, and I think both groups also come with some heavy cavalry of their own.

Then there's just some luck. Earlier I lost a fight where I had two to one odds (both Muslims). Good generals with the right traits and neither of us had heavy cavalry or horse archers. Sometimes you just fall flat on your ass (aka, the Hesitant Commander trait).

 

[barny]

Fatimids are quite powerful at the beginning of the game, but the rest of the Islamic realms gets often overrun during the midgame by the HRE and France in the West and the Mongols in the East.

 

[NI_Mcknight]

They out numbered your center "Flank" and over whelmed it.Probably due to large number of archers in Skirmish phase.It then defeated the rest of the Army in detail.

10000 men fighting 3000-3500 WILL have significant advantages with the current combat system.Victory goes to the bigger battalions.

I know you said you had all the advantages but there is a little thing called "luck" and you got bad "dice rolls"

I would have thaught that by putting men on the flanks I would have encircled their army...

I reloaded at an earlier save and WtC died, my grandson who took the throne had the True Christian Knight trait along with Just, Brave and Zealous, so he was pretty damn awesome. Everyone loved him so I got around 16k men when the Crusade came, defeated the Fatmid's 12k army only 4k survived. I allowed myself to cry tears of joy thinking I had won the war, when the Fatmids reached deep down into their bowels, and pulled 15k men out of their ass. Needless to say

 

[Kimberly]

I would have thaught that by putting men on the flanks I would have encircled their army...

This sort of true--you get a damage bonus by doing this, if I recall correctly. The thing is, if their very strong center can knock out your flanks individually, they will destroy them one by one and win. Dividing your troops over three flanks is only a good idea if each flank can stand up to their single flank on their own. Otherwise, you're letting them make use of the good old "divide and conquer" tactic.

 

[NI_Mcknight]

This sort of true--you get a damage bonus by doing this, if I recall correctly. The thing is, if their very strong center can knock out your flanks individually, they will destroy them one by one and win. Dividing your troops over three flanks is only a good idea if each flank can stand up to their single flank on their own. Otherwise, you're letting them make use of the good old "divide and conquer" tactic.

God save us, I'm going back to medieval total war...

Can anyone offer me tips on crusading, atm I'm just switching from sieging a Northern Provence to a Southern one... Is there a way to involve the ERE

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

Well you need to look at the specific commanding trait and put for instance a lot of horses on one flank with a cavalry leader and strengthen your centre to prevent it from collapsing.
If it collapses, encircling doesnt work anymore and your flanks are lost.

 

[Chazzen01]

I would have thaught that by putting men on the flanks I would have encircled their army...

I reloaded at an earlier save and WtC died, my grandson who took the throne had the True Christian Knight trait along with Just, Brave and Zealous, so he was pretty damn awesome. Everyone loved him so I got around 16k men when the Crusade came, defeated the Fatmid's 12k army only 4k survived. I allowed myself to cry tears of joy thinking I had won the war, when the Fatmids reached deep down into their bowels, and pulled 15k men out of their ass. Needless to say View attachment 70245

Wow, I can't tell you how much I:rofl:

 

[yesyesokfine]

This happened to me playing as Rus. I had just finished mopping up the Cumanians. Khiva invaded and so I got my 10k man army together. I won the first fight even though I was outnumbered. I was so happy that I had won. Then they marched a 30k man army out of nowhere. I was so disappointed that I started a new game.

 

[JonStryker]

This happened to me playing as Rus. I had just finished mopping up the Cumanians. Khiva invaded and so I got my 10k man army together. I won the first fight even though I was outnumbered. I was so happy that I had won. Then they marched a 30k man army out of nowhere. I was so disappointed that I started a new game.

How on earth can a 2 duchy-kingdom like Khiva field an army like that :O ?

 

[unmerged(228153)]

Tips for crusading:

Pray.


Also, don't go stomping into Jerusalem right off the bat. Start in the Nile Delta. Bring heavy infantry.
Keep your fleet in the area. Know when to pull a Dunkerque. When the Fatimid stacks pop up in your personal space, move to the Holy Land via cruise ship.
Light cavalry is useless until the mop-up phase of a battle, then they're nice to have. Heavy cavalry on the flanks is a godsend.
Don't split your forces, unless you have a very good reason to do so.
When recruiting mercenaries, pick those with the least useless troops. Archers are okay. Axemen are mediocre. Light infantry are meatshields.

 

[Julyan]

How on earth can a 2 duchy-kingdom like Khiva field an army like that :O ?

In my game Khiva inherited Seljuks. Maybe something like that happened in his game.

 

[barny]

Tips for crusading:

Pray.


Also, don't go stomping into Jerusalem right off the bat. Start in the Nile Delta.

Yeah, that is always very successful. :saintlouis:

 

[unmerged(228153)]

Yeah, that is always very successful. :saintlouis:

It works quite well in CK2, though — the Fatimids will throw everything at the crusaders, so Egypt is usually empty. Of course, once you besiege Egypt, the Fatimids will send their stacks at you, no questions asked. Sinai and the Delta are quite defensible positions, and Alexandria–Cairo–Damietta constitutes a significant part of the Fatimid's commerce and levy pool. I think your chances are better there, and even if you have to retreat, the other crusading armies might have had time to maybe take a castle or two...

The problem is twofold, really: the Fatimids are too strong (decadence should be higher, less levies, more religious unrest, weaker Mamelukes) — and the crusading armies never bother to assist each other. What use is the Pope's 8K stack when it stands around sieging Baalbek or something, while the other crusaders are picked apart piecemeal-style until the Pope is hopelessly confronted with a 20K Fatimid army?

By the way, the Fatimids being overpowered is a direct result of the crusade failing: Beating back a crusade resets dynastic decadence to zero. Since the first crusade tends to fail horribly, well...