Muslim decadence, Wars against family is a must!

[Theruss]

So, here I am... started from 1066 in Spain as a Muslim Emir. Fast forward to 1215, and my Muslim dynasty has founded the Hispanic Empire. Not only that, but due to a successful Jihad took a big chunk from the Byzantines in Greece. So, with multiple kingdoms and the large Empire, things are going quite nicely. Launched an invasion of lower France, won it, gained a lot of land. Unfortunately in 10 years time, Both a HRE holy war and later the Pope calling a crusade against the rest, made me lose what I gained in the invasion... oh well, it happens.

Now to the point of this topic. I put my Muslim family in every position of power throughout the game. I had very little rebellion between brothers and half-brothers, due to gifts, titles, demands, and similar traits. I think that was a mistake in hindsight... since the dynasty is so huge... soooo much decadence! Hurt especially when I lost lower France in that 10 year span, and all the family in the area was now landless, and decadent...

I honestly now believe you need to have civil war between family and imprison and execute your evil brothers and half brothers, to keep the dynasty as small as possible! It's so annoying having 20+ members of your dynasty imprisoned and constantly checking for new 16 year old boys popping up every 3 months...

So, when you see Persia explode into civil war all the time, I think they have the right idea... :laugh:

It's such an odd system, you are encouraged to take on multiple wives so you don't take a prestige hit. You are having kids left and right. You have to give the sons enough land and power so they don't contribute decadence. You pass away and give your power to your heir. That is when the heir's brothers and half brothers get jealous and plan to rebel. So, instead of being nice to them. Let them rebel and defeat and execute em!

Anyone agree with this strategy? It really seems like the only way to be a successful Muslim dynasty from start to finish.

 

[Theruss]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. You will actually lose decadence during these civil wars against family too! Peace is not possible with decadence, war against everyone, especially evil brothers and half brothers!

 

[Mutineer]

You have to give the sons enough land and power so they don't contribute decadence. You pass away and give your power to your heir.

That s incorrect, you do not have to land them. You just have to give them job. (Consul position). This way you keep all of them in your court and when you heir inherite he can easy handle them. Ofcouse they will not be best candidates for positions, but low decadence take priority.

 

[Theruss]

Yeah, I know that. The Consul positions are only 5 spots. Not to mention you cannot change your Court Imman or whatever the holy man is called, until he passes. It does help, yes that you can put dynasty members in a Consul job and the decadence is gone. But when you are large enough, you must land the rest. Also, say you have all 5 sons in a Consul position and your heir can easily handle them. No doubt, those 5 will have kids of their own. So, it's a short term solution.

 

[Mutineer]

why? kill them. you can do it with out tyrany I believe. Choise best on and put them on consil and arrest the rest. You do need more then one son, in case first one die, but you do not need more then 5.

In addition, I do not know, does job as a general leading armies count agains decadence? If it does, put then as generals for your retinees.

 

[Silverbow]

But when you are large enough, you must land the rest.

When you're large enough, no amount of lands and titles will make your family non-decadent, so you either go on assassination spree or bite the bullet on tyranny and throw your sons into prison as soon as they come of age. I don't like the decadence mechanic one bit, it basically made me abandon my Fatimid game in early 1200s. :glare:

 

[Theruss]

why? kill them. you can do it with out tyrany I believe. Choise best on and put them on consil and arrest the rest. You do need more then one son, in case first one die, but you do not need more then 5.

In addition, I do not know, does job as a general leading armies count agains decadence? If it does, put then as generals for your retinees.

Muslim's can imprison and execute their own dynasty at a cost of 20 piety. However, if they are an Emir, you will take a tyranny hit. Although Muslim rulers are able to revoke emirate's with no penalty. Other than, the Emir possibly rebelling of course. It's very easy to imprison and execute cousins, nephews and kinsman, it seems. But try imprisoning one of your Princes/children, you will take a tyranny hit. So unless they are part of your consul, it might be best to land them. Then when your ruler passes, make your heir encourage them to rebel that way when you win, they automatically go to prison. Then you can revoke and or execute. Not like brothers and half brothers need a lot of encouragement to rebel.

 

[Mutineer]

Yee, but you can plot, you can assing them spymaster and send on dagerous mission, you can make them lead armies destined to be crashed. You can send them to province with plaque. (as conull mission or head of an army). There a lot of creative ways to get them killed if you try.

 

[Theruss]

True. In the game I describe in my first post. I didn't have any problems with sons and brother/half brothers. Most of the decadence came from kinsmen descended from all those brothers, uncles and cousins. Hmm, got an idea with the consul sons, if they are in your court, they have to ask you to get married. Perhaps marry the planned Heir and the plan B heir if something goes wrong with the first one. But try and keep the rest single all their lives. That way 150 years later, I am not having problems with kinsmen! :glare:

 

[Scanian_Warrior]

You can send them to province with plaque. (as conull mission or head of an army).

Unless they have the toothpaste trait.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

After your heir has two sons, make him spymaster and send them to spy on the Constantinople. Hopefully he'll get castrated. >.< Always keep a backup son, though.

 

[yezhanquan]

Or take the prestige hit and take only 1 wife. Certainly cuts down on the intrigue in the harem.

 

[Mods]

Well you can convert to a different religion...

 

[yezhanquan]

How do you do that as an independent sultan? Sounds like the stars need to align or something like that.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Arrest all your sons when they turn 16.

 

[dorukdorucu]

Also, starting out as a designed ruler helps too, as you start with 0 living members of your dynasty and you can choose traits which reduce fertility so you don't have too many sons.
As a sidenote, for some reason muslims tend to give birth to many daughters but onyl 2-3 sons. Is this WAD or just plain luck?

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

So, here I am... started from 1066 in Spain as a Muslim Emir. Fast forward to 1215, and my Muslim dynasty has founded the Hispanic Empire.

This is why I increase decadence by A LOT.

 

[Red_warning]

A tip: Marry one young fertile wife for child bearing, and three old hags as token wives.

 

[yezhanquan]

May not always have old hags around, and the RNG sometimes make old women have kids.

 

[Theruss]

Some of the events can help or hinder your efforts in keeping a small dynasty. Get the event where you choose between a life of pleasure (+fertility -piety) or life of piety (+piety -fertility,) obviously take the later. I always seem to get the event where you have such romance with the wife, that your ruler can get the lustful trait (25% chance I believe) or even possibly die. Always manage to get the lustful trait... does that event fire up when you have a lustful wife, or is just random?