Muslim Can make Royal Marriage with Christian
- Thread starter nasuhdede
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Nope, not always. One of heir of Ottoman was not Muslim. He killed when he rebelled for Venice.
Well it's not true.
"And do not marry polytheistic women (Mushrikât) until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you."
-Qur'an 2:221
Now one could say that this only prohibits marriage with Polytheists, but the fact that it says "until they believe" rather than "until they stop being Polytheists" indicates that it really extends to everyone who is not of the believers, i.e. Muslims, Christians, and Jews. In any case there are other places in the Qur'an where the same rule is expressed.
Last edited:
- 5
Only allow christians bordering scary muslims to marry. Thats why they did so historically, and it wont lead to bizzare cases. And only allow pu between christians. Problem solved.
- 7
- 2
How many Muslims made RM with Japanese - Shinto?
There are Turkish, Arabian, Berber, Algerian, Morrocan. include all parts of Sunni Islam around middle east. l think game's "historical" argument is pretty void not mine.
What are you replying to? I'm asking a very specific example to list me the number of RM between christians and muslims... You begin to sum up all sorts of people of muslim stock, proving you have not grasped my question. Let me restate it again, name me a:
- Bourbon who married a muslim?
- Valois who married a muslim?
- Hohenzollern who married a muslim?
- Habsburg who married a muslim?
- De Trastamara who married a muslim?
- Aviz who married a muslim?
- Braganza who married a muslim?
- Lancaster who married a muslim?
- York who married a muslim?
- Tudor who married a muslim?
- Stuart/Stewart who married a muslim?
- Orange who married a muslim?
- Wittselbach who married a muslim?
- Romanov who married a muslim?
- Vasa who married a muslim?
- Jagellion who married a muslim?
- etc [insert European royal lineages here]
- etc [insert European royal lineages here]
I'm asking you very specifically to list me the "many" examples of royal muslim-christian intermarriage during this period, as to prove a rule that this was actually a 'thing' and happened so very often - not the one exception of Byzantine rulers who were desperate to marry pretty much everything in their despondent state of decay... (for such things are termed 'the exception proving the rule')
You can't. The point is about the marriages of muslim and christian royalty. Shinto Japan has nothing to do with it and would only provide fake arguments not to the point - though probably correct in that it was never a thing either, but I'm not arguing Japan, I'm arguing christian Europe. I'm very specifically asking exhaustive proof by historical facts that this was a thing. I know of none.
- 1
Not required no. In theory Muslim women can't marry non Muslim men and its rare even in modern times and liberal democracies.
If this ability gets coded in anyway, the devs might aswell add it to the national traditions of Trebizond. As far as I remember it has alot of historical basis and would make sense from a gameplay perspective.
I can't think of any cases of royalty marrying Muslims but it not forbidden as such at least as a requirement of the Christian faith.
- 1
So then, a Lancaster or York never married with a Romanov, so lt should be forbidden in game?
A Braganza never married a Jagellion, it should be forbidden?
l support that, some marriage are not true in game. Countries never made marriage. In same point lt should be forbidden also for historical truth
- 5
- 1
Strawman argument here dear sir, the question is of faith, not family. You are blatantly ignoring the point. Which still stands as you have not carried forward any conclusive proof of widespread royal/aristocratic intermarriage between the two faiths.
I await examples.
- 2
Well, royal marriages between Shinto and Muslim doesn't really make much sense either, and Muslims were known to take Christian wives- usually from the Caucasus or Balkans, so there's a case for royal marriages between Muslims and Christian vassals. As far as I know, the Ming didn't really participate in royal marriages either- the Yuan's policy of marrying princes/princesses to vassals I think was seen as unusual.
isn't it so that marrying a non christian power is like taking aristocracy? You marry them to your nation less favourable to be attacked by big greater power nearby?
Should be allowed by coptic and orthodox.
Would give them a buff vs western tech Catholic n kids.
Would give them a buff vs western tech Catholic n kids.
- 1
Perhaps limit it to Coptics and Orthodoxes who have a 'threatened' opinion of a neighbouring Muslim nation?
But we don't want it to be widespread where France royal marriages Mamluks every game. We ask for it to be possible so that you can strenghten ties with neighbouring/friendly muslim nations that are allies/vassals or whatever. It did happen in areas where muslims and christians lived together, not only in the population but among the royalty as well.
We could just make it so that there is some more reluctance so that it only happens if they manage to get Friendly attitude or something similar with eachother.
- 2
If it did happen, why is everyone reluctant to give examples other than that of a Byzantine princess and some Coptic tribe in faraway Ethiopia? I'm merely asking for positive proof in this timeframe that amongst royalty, this was not an exception - and the only things proven by the Byzantine casus, is indeed, the exceptional character of that unison.
- 1
Uniqueness is not necessarily a buff. In the eyes of many players, Buddhism got nerfed, and is now worse than flavourless religions like Confucian.
Incidentally, it's kind of weird that a dead religion (Norse) now has more flavour than a number of religions that do appear in the standard 1444 scenario (Coptic, Confucian, Tengri, Animist, Shamanist, Totemist...) Scandinavian bias I suppose
- 1
Incidentally, it's kind of weird that a dead religion (Norse) now has more flavour than a number of religions that do appear in the standard 1444 scenario (Coptic, Confucian, Tengri, Animist, Shamanist, Totemist...) Scandinavian bias I suppose
Fun fact: Iceland recently started building a temple to honour the Norse gods. The first one since they converted to Christianity about 1000 years ago.
Even if it was an exception, does that really warrant an 100% NEVER in all circumstances? If the circumstances are right it should be a possibility.
I am in no way claiming i have studied marriages between Muslim-Christian royal families but it makes sense that they would interact and make strategical marriages when the circumstances are right.
As another example (kind of out of the timeframe) Al Andalus might also have practiced royal marriages with the christian royalty in Iberia from what i got just by google.
- 1