Muscovy The Lame

[Yradnegel]

In 1.8 I've noticed a lot of times Muscovy gets absolutely spanked by Novgobear, not exactly right away (muscovy can usually win a war against them early on), but eventually something happens and suddenly Muscovy not only has failed to conquer the north, but they've also either been delayed, or they've had their own northern lands taken from them. I've noticed this in a lot of other people's games too, but in my own (mind you there's no intervention here, i'm playing in the far east) Muscovy has lost most of their north and eastern provinces to Novgobear, as well as their southern lands being taken from Crimea. They're actually doing so badly, that they're getting beaten by Uzbek. I'm starting to question if I'll see Russia form in this game, and if it does I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't by Muscovy.

Anyone else have a weak Muscovy in their game? It seems to be common all of a sudden.

 

[DarkCruor]

Is (Historical) Lucky Nations on?

 

[Zqrfmb]

I've only once seen muscovy be weak in 1.7, with an abnormally strong poland bullying them out of most of their territory, leading to an eventual novgorodian russia after muscovy was vassalized by a horde. In my two 1.8 games, muscovy has been strong, but not able to form Russia (refused to wait for 100% in 1.8.0 for novgorod, and bullied by lithuania in 1.8.1 enough to lose some key provinces for forming russia)

 

[Hakuromatsu]

Muscovy has formed Russia in all three of my 1.8 games so far (well, one with my help...) -- I think it's overall weaker in 1.8/AOW, but with or without Lucky Nations it's in a really great position to form Russia and dominate from that point on.

The quirk in my three games is that Aragon keeps swallowing up Castile (well, once with my help, insofar as Inca can help swallow up Castile). Repeated diplomatic and military pummeling.

 

[henzington]

I have played several games and I have seen Russia form only about half the time versus 100% of the time in previous patches. Usually this happens because Muscovy fails to take expansion ideas.

 

[Hakuromatsu]

I really wish there was a good way to mine statistics across dozens of players and hundred of games, instead of all this anecdotal "in none of mine" and "happened five times for me" stuff.

 

[DarkCruor]

As a side note in several games where I actually paid enough attention to Muscovy to care what they did, as in where I played Georgia and in another game Uzbek (> Bukhara), they got destroyed by a huge coalition of all the hordes (as in including Timurids, who bring in Ottomans 90% of the time now) and then they were pretty much dismantled by rebels, Poland, Denmark (or some Norse state), and all proceeded to help. I'm not sure if Novgorod participated or not. At least, in my games. I think Novgorod was destroyed by Denmark/Sweden.

So yeah, in my experience the horde coalition Muscovy gets led by Timurids usually destroys them because they bring in Ottomans and whatnot. Which, even if they win leads to huge amounts of rebels and high autonomy for all their provinces, the huge amount of AE also causes P-L to fight them as they now super hate each others guts. So it ends up being a loss both ways for the AI.

 

[HeroOfCows]

In my one of my last games they lost a bit of land to Novgorod, but eventually gobbled them up and formed Russia. In my Manchu game they're looking pretty normal.

 

[Illianor123]

Instead of 85-95% forming Russia, they seem to be at a 70-80% chance currently.
They seem to fail more often that they used to, but still are generally strong

 

[Osman Pasha]

I always see them getting crushed by Commonwealth. CW is buffed while Muscovy is nerfed.

 

[balmung60]

I'd say I'm seeing them fail in my current game, but I'm Poland and allied to Sweden, so I think you can see why Muscovy is failing in this case.

Honestly, I'm more disappointed about the Ottomans. Their opening game was weak enough that they got Christianized by rebels, and even allied to me, they're unwilling to expand at an even halfway historical rate. In fact, I rarely see the Ottomans push past the classical Byzantine borders of the Balkans + Anatolia in any game.

 

[HMatsunaga54]

It's the problem of Muscovy being practically alone in a very hostile neighborhood regardless of player intervention, all of the other Russian states your gonna want to conquer, and after that there are no real powerful Orthodox countries of note. The hordes are Muslims and are usually allied either with each or with the Ottomans,Timuids and maybe Qara Konyulu. Which basically makes expanding into horde territory a matter of luck in either who allies with or that you have enough troops. Westward, Muscovy and Lithuania warred with each other for a long period of time, Poland is usually either an ally or leads a union with them, baring a lucky reformation. Sweden is unlikely and Denmark even with Kalmar Union can only go so far, you may even be seen as a threat later on.

 

[Artyom87]

muscovy is a joke

especially compared to the commonwealth

Like regardless of the nation you play, muscovy will not be a serious threat

which makes the ottomans and polish play even more dull, because you can do what Hitler and Napoleon and George Bush can only dream of

iam pretty sure the devs are just racists and dislike Russia's current politics, hence the big nerf to Russia over the years

 

[Checkvalve]

muscovy is a joke

especially compared to the commonwealth

Like regardless of the nation you play, muscovy will not be a serious threat

which makes the ottomans and polish play even more dull, because you can do what Hitler and Napoleon and George Bush can only dream of

iam pretty sure the devs are just racists and dislike Russia's current politics, hence the big nerf to Russia over the years

I honestly don't know what the bigger joke is, this post or Muscovy in 1.8.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

muscovy is a joke

especially compared to the commonwealth

Like regardless of the nation you play, muscovy will not be a serious threat

which makes the ottomans and polish play even more dull, because you can do what Hitler and Napoleon and George Bush can only dream of

iam pretty sure the devs are just racists and dislike Russia's current politics, hence the big nerf to Russia over the years

Russia is not a race, and Muscovy is not Russia.

 

[panionios]

muscovy is a joke

especially compared to the commonwealth

Like regardless of the nation you play, muscovy will not be a serious threat

which makes the ottomans and polish play even more dull, because you can do what Hitler and Napoleon and George Bush can only dream of

iam pretty sure the devs are just racists and dislike Russia's current politics, hence the big nerf to Russia over the years

One wonders what it is that you edited ...

 

[atwix]

i know why. If golden horde starts out as enemy wth muscovy, the ai is scrpted to declare on kazan first, not novgorod
..

Result? Muscovy does not have a port in novgorod once they got to chose their first idea group. Ans since they don't have port, they can NOT pick expansion ideas. Why? Bad scripting. Makes no sense really.

Result? Muscovy takes religious ideas first if they do'nt have port, and they are screwed.

This has been abusable since forever. Even in early patches helping novgorod out basicacly meant muscovy gets eaten sooner or later.

EU4 AI is predicatable and scripted. Do 500 games, and look at what ai in this or that country does (and allies with) given x or y nation as enemy. You always end up with same result.

 

[ponasozis]

well in two of three of my games muscovy got beaten up by novgorod and its ally sweden
on the third one super timurids existed and muscovy got beaten up by uzbek timurid alliance

 

[atwix]

well in two of three of my games muscovy got beaten up by novgorod and its ally sweden
on the third one super timurids existed and muscovy got beaten up by uzbek timurid alliance

novgorod always 100% supports independance of sweden. If lithuania falls into PU under Poland, Sweden wins. Hence alliance sweden novgorod. Kiss muscovy goodbye after that, i guess

 

[DarkCruor]

Yeah, I was just playing a game and that's exactly what happened. What's worse is that since this screenshot Novgorod and Sweden now hate each others guts and PLC doesn't care about them, and is a paper tiger, and I think Novgorod has even lost to Nogai.

It kinda made the 30 Years War boring as everything fell to the Catholics instantly despite Ottoman help and whatnot.


Anyway, this is an old screenshot and I have since took the rest of Northern Italy. I don't actually want to become Italy or to take Sicily but I might have to because of how annoying Portugal is being to my trade (its gets something like a 2000 power trade bonus in Genoa and Tunis wtf). I also took North Africa.