Muscovy/Russia idea groups (after Third Rome)

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CrazyZombie

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Because in the first post the OP says that he's having difficulty winning wars, keeping his manpower up etc. He's not an experienced EUIV player (sounds from his sig that HOI is his home game) and while he probably could still win just by practicing micro and tech management for thirty hours, right now early defensive ideas really might help with the specific difficulties he's having.

(Also not everyone plays infinite blob mode. I know I'll have way more fun taking Aristocratic and Espionage for my totally needless +93% winged hussar combat ability.)
In my last game I managed to win and nearly destroy Lithuania, using alliance with their neighbor orders. My mistakes, as I see them now were:
1) too much use of mercs;
2) too much use of internal loans (forgot, how it is named in game - gives money in exchange of corruption).

I saw that corruption affects tech and ideas too late. Combined with pretty incompetent monarchs... Outcome was predictable.

Next try will be more balanced, I think. Pity, it is hard to force hordes attack Lithuania. Could be helpful.
 

Horn and Ivory

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I saw that corruption affects tech and ideas too late. Combined with pretty incompetent monarchs... Outcome was predictable.

I've made that horrible mistake before.

It's always worth bearing in mind that standard loans become less significant as you blob (because a loan taken a long time ago becomes an ever-smaller proportion of your income) while corruption becomes more significant (because you pay to get rid of it based on development).
 

CrazyZombie

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I've made that horrible mistake before.

It's always worth bearing in mind that standard loans become less significant as you blob (because a loan taken a long time ago becomes an ever-smaller proportion of your income) while corruption becomes more significant (because you pay to get rid of it based on development).
Well, in first two wars technically I could make it without such extreme measures, and after taking half of grain producing provinces from Lithuania, I could simply leave Europe for some time and focus on the Eastern direction. If you come to Siberia too late (for ingame, because IRL I was still making it better than historical Russia), you will see there Oirats, eaten Siberian khanate, and Oirats are Ming tributary, so you can't simply attack them. Damn overpowered Ming is making it more and more absurd.

Still, that was mostly luck with Lithuania - Poland refused to create a dynastic union, taking own monarch. In such conditions both become weaker, and it is much easier to drive Lithuania to fight 1 vs. 1 by attacking their allies.
 

Kergan

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FWIW I played a few Russia-related games after Third Rome got released. Based on this, I'd suggest the following order:

1. Defensive. Switch to mil focus after smashing Novgorod, to get that Mil tech 4/5 and later 15% Morale ASAP. Throw in some manpower dev if you need to dump early excess mil points somewhere. Upon getting the Morale bonus, switch to admin focus as soon as you can, because your next two groups will be admin related. The attrition reduction and the extra attrition for enemies are also very useful.
2/3 Religious. You'll need it to convert all the horde territories, and the CB at the end is just too good to pass up on. (Alternatively, pick Administrative here, but know that you'll struggle to convert horde territory early on. Plus you'll want to culture convert tons of territories.)
3/2 Administrative. You'll be conquering a lot. Grab the 25% coring cost bonus quickly, and then fill it up at a leisurely pace. Alternatively, pick Religious here; it'll be cheaper to core horde territory, but with the above-mention caveats.)
4. Anything goes. Offensive and Quality are always good picks. Influence helps with vassals and prestige. Innovative has useful policies and prestige as well. Trade gives much needed merchants. Which you pick after Defensive/Religious/Administrative depends on your play style.

I disagree with above comments about picking Influence early. It's totally not needed for Russia until much later - if at all. If you know how to manage coalitions (by which I mean managing opinion, number of nations involved, truces, etc.) you can totally stampede all the way to China without a single coalition ever forming, all while having 2-3 Sunni majors at 100+ Aggressive Expansion opinion.

In case it needs reminding: for a coalition to form you need a) 4 nations b) without a truce with you c) with a negative opinion d) at 50 or more aggressive expansion. If it's 3 nations you're safe; if there's a truce you're safe; if opinion is positive you're safe; if there's less than 50 AE opinion, you're obviously safe too. Oh, and they should feel strong enough to fight you, too. So don't forget to build to troop limit or beyond.
 

Celdur

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1 Innovative - 2 Quality and then take the +20% infantry combat modifier

3. Quantity, you will have both massive and elite armies. Against more elite enemies (Prussia) you will have the numbers and be able to attrition them while not being a push over, and against masive enemy armies you will have the damage edge.

4+ whatever you want (Economic + Offensive, try to stack discipline, take +10% artillery modifier, +5% discipline)

Consecrate metropolitans to try and reach 100% Orthodox, take the Discipline Saint.

Settle Cossacks and raise the cavalry to fight the Hordes.

Develop provinces to get Insititutions, don't wait for them to spread. Pick a region with good trade goods close to each other and develop that area.
 

Robert de Bruce

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Sometimes they are just running around aimlessly.
When you play Russia, they will always do so as long as you became big enough and destroyed your forts.

I did my first WC with Third Rome Russia in 1.22. Several things, with which OP is struggling can't/shouldn't be fixed with ideas, I think. 20170821032352_1.jpg The ideas I went with

1. Influence: Since getting idea groups requires admin tech and the first 3 idea groups unlock your national ideas, I don't see why you should pick an admin idea group first. Military is also a no-go, since you need tech parity. Influence helps alot with vassal feeding, more than diplomacy
2. Aristocratic: Not many people here use it, but I think it's highly worth it. When you hit admin 7, you should swim in military points you need to sink, so MIL idea group now. Cav combat and cost is ok and useful in early, tech cost reduction is always worth, third one is nice when absolutism hits, more manpower worth, tradition decay lowered very worse. Your army quality relies alot on generals, so everything making your generals better is much more worth it than another 5% discipline or +10% combat ability. And army tradition is together with general pips the way to go. Diplomat is absolutely necessary if influence and not diplo first. 20% more mercs might be needed early and land leader siege is awesome. Aristocratic makes vassal feeding expansion much better and combines the best things of offensive and quantity. Great group overall, with good events also.
3. Admin: obvious reasons. Plus with admin completely filled out, you can unlock a policy to reduce diplo annexation cost. Key for vassal feeding and why you shouldn't delay that group or not fill it out completely.
4. Quantity: at that point I could need more manpower, had to choose military to sink mil points, you could get offensive instead. Together with aristocracy, full orthodox boni, Russia and WC I had a max manpower reserve above 2 million in early 18th century, making any losses irrelevant. I had a forcelimit of over a million I didn't come close to at any time. And I needed nearly no mercs at all. Every time I called streltsy I got 300k or more. This becomes pretty much an "I win button" if any enemy stack marches to your capital. Ofcourse you can also take offensive instead.
5. Religious: If you have the admin point spare, take it as fourth, very well for orthodox Russia. I didn't get One Faith in my run though not for picking religious this late than not getting all extra missionaries fast enough.
6. Offensive: absolutely useful in late game because of the siege ability. The other boni are nice but you don't need them when you have great generals by keeping army tradition up.
7. Diplomacy: mostly because of the -20% war cost reduction for provinces, but also diplomat, diplomatic reputation and diplo relations are highly useful. Could be picked earlier, too.
8. Quality: absolutely not needed at all, just didn't know what else to take this late. I could have taken no group at all, maybe better.

General advice:
1. Don't waste a slot for economic, trade or something for money. Just blob more.
2. Blob in the right direction. Ignore Europe when you can't get something without much cost. Push through hordes to Persia to conquer India, Arabian Peninsula, Africa. It's useful for you to destroy Kalmar Union and PLC before it forms, but you don't need to blob in Europe.
3. If you can, take extra missionary sites from Ottos. It's Jerusalem/Al Quuds and the pentarchy sites. Control of bosporus node is also nice for Russia. I did this late in mid 18th century, so I couldn't one faith anymore.
4. It's enough time to start destroying Ming in 1750 if you took all ideas needed for max blobbing, use client states, imperialism CB and max absolutism.

Edit: Develop for early institutions. For the first three I did it. The later ones you can get otherwise. Use spare points for that, you'll lose soon more to tech upkeep.
 
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My strategy is the following:

1 defensive (you have a 5 mil heir and early +2 mil advisor from the cossack estate)
2 religious (early conversion and deus vult against everyone available as soon as you form Russia)
3 quantity
4 administrative

I take quantity before administrative for two main reasons:

-after forming Russia you will want to core your new states asap without waiting until you have 800 admin points for the core reduction
-by the time you form Russia, all of your easy targets (hordes and Lithuania) are likely already gone. Expanding against Scandinavia, India and the Ottomans will make manpower way more important than admin points saved