Muscovy have been majorly nerfed

[Novacat]

Anyway, I'd argue that the 7.5% discipline and 20% morale/infantry combat stand out more so than that in the late game. AT decay and whatnot is more so an early game thing, but not an enormous one. Before ideas start getting filled Hungary's ideas are scarier than Prussia's, but that stops being true soon enough.

They are good, but not amazing. France for example gets the same morale bonus and only 2.5% less discipline, while having much better ancilliary bonuses like +1 diplo relations, -10% annexation cost, and -10% Tech cost. Ottomans gets 15% Discipline, 20% Infantry power and 15% Cavalry power. Yet everyone agrees that Brandenburg has the best land warfare NIs.

 

[DicRoNero]

Yes, but it is still a fair bonus, far better than something like +10% production eff.

I'd say they are close, like +25% vs. +20% manpower respectively. Also, I'd say all this permanent 90(100) AT is overrated. Sure, you might get it down to 85 or 95 once in peace, so what? Just don't hire generals when going into a war, hire them mid-way or at the end, when your AT is surely 100. For the rest of the applications, there's very little difference between 90 or 100 AT. Things like +1 to leader pips or CA are much more solid and pronounced.

I'm not saying Polish NIs are on pair with Muscovite ones (there are no Russian NIs since 1.8, btw), they are worse, but that's justified by Polish performance during the timeframe, since in this game NIs of the historical winners (or superperformers, like Ottos) are generally better.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm not saying Polish NIs are on pair with Muscovite ones (there are no Russian NIs since 1.8, btw), they are worse, but that's justified by Polish performance during the timeframe, since in this game NIs of the historical winners (or superperformers, like Ottos) are generally better.

A bit off topic, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. Manchurian ideas aren't better than horde, Persian ideas tend to be a downgrade from anybody who can form it, and nations like BYZ and Granada have absurdly strong ideas considering they're all but dead. I think a better analysis is that the devs just wanted a few top tier powers to also have incredible NIs.

 

[DicRoNero]

A bit off topic, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. Manchurian ideas aren't better than horde, Persian ideas tend to be a downgrade from anybody who can form it, and nations like BYZ and Granada have absurdly strong ideas considering they're all but dead. I think a better analysis is that the devs just wanted a few top tier powers to also have incredible NIs.

Yeah, that's closer to what I actually meant

 

[Novacat]

A bit off topic, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. Manchurian ideas aren't better than horde, Persian ideas tend to be a downgrade from anybody who can form it, and nations like BYZ and Granada have absurdly strong ideas considering they're all but dead. I think a better analysis is that the devs just wanted a few top tier powers to also have incredible NIs.

I would argue that Manchu ideas are better than horde ideas now, as the Manchus basically trade off -5 years of nationalism and -20% land attrition with -10% tech cost, -2 revolt risk, and +5% Discipline.

 

[Pornek]

A bit off topic, but I'm not sure that's entirely true. Manchurian ideas aren't better than horde, Persian ideas tend to be a downgrade from anybody who can form it, and nations like BYZ and Granada have absurdly strong ideas considering they're all but dead. I think a better analysis is that the devs just wanted a few top tier powers to also have incredible NIs.

Well Tabarestan has generic national ideas.

 

[MiniaAr]

Well Tabarestan has generic national ideas.

Whereas Shirvan has awesome ideas and colour, It's a shame to lose both really

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Well Tabarestan has generic national ideas.

Ah of course, I'd forgotten. Yes, for them it is an upgrade hehe.

 

[StatikShocker]

Not true. Russia is no longer a SINGLE east slavic cultural union. Both Ruthenia and Russia can coexist, both being cultural unions (I believe it's a bug). But that's an offtop, sorry.

weird. Rev France isn't a French cultural Union, I remember the reason being that only one tag can be a cultural union per culture group.
I do realize in my test I was using Muscovy so I'd have to test again with Russia

 

[Ranjid]

weird. Rev France isn't a French cultural Union, I remember the reason being that only one tag can be a cultural union per culture group.
I do realize in my test I was using Muscovy so I'd have to test again with Russia

Germany and the HRE are both german cultural unions. So that can't be the reason.

 

[StatikShocker]

Germany and the HRE are both german cultural unions. So that can't be the reason.

aer you sure about the HRE? it includes so much of italy and other non germanic cultures, why would it be a germanic culture union?

 

[Moondrinker]

I've had a lot of fun playing Muscovy.

I picked Humanism as my first idea group. It's very appealing, can't see why this wouldn't be a first pick. Secondly I picked defensive, because my war with Denmark-Norway, Sweden and England were very difficult and taxing for me (my lack of a proper Navy was decisive. Thinking of picking this idea group next). I managed to grab some of Finland along with parts of Northern Estonia. My goal was to sack Riga, Tartu and Pärnu as well but alas, I failed.
I am contemplating whether to pick religious next to consolidate my empire further my converting my sunni provinces but with humanism I'm doing rather fine.

I've had a skirmish with the Ottomans around 1490, they were very weak. It was a defensive war, defending my orthordox brothers near Crimea.

Now I have turned my gaze on those ripe high base tax provinces in Lithuania, but I don't know how to tackle that situation.
I have a question. Lithuania is allied to Poland (no PU) but so am I, and I have a royal marrige with Poland. Do they support Lithuania if I declare war on them? It says so on the screen.

Thanks.

 

[oblio-]

Defensive call to arms trump offensive ones 99% of the time. Poland will help them.

I'd recommend not focusing on your navy as Russia. Just avoid islands and far away peninsulas, siege things close to you. Get a military idea groups instead, for your army. Defensive was a good choice, I'd recommend something that helps you hit harder. Offensive is a great pick, Quality is also good.

I'd recommend not coring the Lithuanian lands, release some vassals, Kiev sounds nice.

 

[DicRoNero]

Now I have turned my gaze on those ripe high base tax provinces in Lithuania, but I don't know how to tackle that situation.
I have a question. Lithuania is allied to Poland (no PU) but so am I, and I have a royal marrige with Poland. Do they support Lithuania if I declare war on them? It says so on the screen.

Thanks.

General tactics for situations such as this is to ally Poland yourself, then start a war they would join and make sure they do jump in, and then attack Lithuania while Poland has their hands tied.

 

[nicechinos]

Defensive call to arms trump offensive ones 99% of the time. Poland will help them.

I'd recommend not focusing on your navy as Russia. Just avoid islands and far away peninsulas, siege things close to you. Get a military idea groups instead, for your army. Defensive was a good choice, I'd recommend something that helps you hit harder. Offensive is a great pick, Quality is also good.

I'd recommend not coring the Lithuanian lands, release some vassals, Kiev sounds nice.

Straightaway coring is better in 1.8 from the expansion perspective (annexed vassal land will start with 75% LA providing little economic or manpower benefit). However, PLC probably already got the second Aristocratic idea so vassal feeding (Polotsk and any of Ruthenian principalities) is the only choice.
Fleet can be really good for Russia however it doesn't justify taking naval/maritime, agreed on that. Naval superiority over Danes/Swedes/Ottomans is easily achieved through maxing out naval bases/arsenals and going well over forcelimit in galleys. And it's historical too.

 

[hajutze]

/offtopicish

Spoiler

If I can do it so can Muscovy ...

 

[nicechinos]

/offtopicish

Spoiler

If I can do it so can Muscovy ...

But we'll need to extract all your knowledge, experience and gaming skills and put it into Muscovite AI so that it will finally be able to conquer Novgorod. Alas.

 

[Novacat]

I've had a lot of fun playing Muscovy.
...
Thanks.

You did well, but IMO conquesting Scandanavia was probably a mistake. The only provinces you really want/need are the Novgorod/White Sea trade nodes. Baltic trade node is not really worth it.

After dealing with Novgorod, I actually recommend turning east and conquering the Hordes. You just need to vassalize one then you can use its Tribal Feud CB to conquer the rest of the steppes. Once you finish feeding your horde all of Siberia, you can then integrate it and have all of Siberia instantly cored. Given it will all start at 75% autonomy but you will probably have more money and forcelimits than you could use anyway.

 

[hajutze]

My Muscovy had little to no problems conquering Novgorod even when it didnt have the Tartar lands (I had them). Heck it was still wrecking Novgorod AND Sweden after I took away the Uralic Lands (Perm) to cut off their colonized lands (75 LA).

In other words before I intervened they had left Novgorod with 2 lands and were wrecking both Novgorod and Sweden.

 

[1alexey]

Bra is example, when you should improve your weaknesses before improving your strengths. Reason: they have superior military power and you should, somehow, get money, land and manpower to support this. Again, at this time Muscovy can get innovative and quality (10% combat ability + 20% combat ability from policy) to get practically the same army as yours.

If only I could pick Religious and Administrative twice. Probem is, I can`t.

Things like +1 to leader pips or CA are much more solid and pronounced.

IDK. +1 pip doesn`t improve the maximum roll of general, it is still 6, so at 100% army tradition, you don`t really get that much of advantage, compared to what you get being at low AT.

I'm not saying Polish NIs are on pair with Muscovite ones (there are no Russian NIs since 1.8, btw), they are worse, but that's justified by Polish performance during the timeframe, since in this game NIs of the historical winners (or superperformers, like Ottos) are generally better.

I don`t mind Muscowy having stronger NIs. I do mind people claiming Polish ideas are stronger, they are not.