Muscovy have been majorly nerfed

[nicechinos]

Prussia at 100% assumes defensive/innovative/war college unique building.

Russia with those 3 things + NIs will have +.5 trad (NI), +.5 trad (building), +1 trad (defensive) and -3% decay due to the -2% in innovative. This results in a decay of 1 per year at 100 tradition, and will indeed allow for 0 decay at 80 tradition.

Of course, any generic nation can get +1.5 tradition and -3 decay and sit at 70. If you involve policies, any nation can sit at 100 actually. For Russia which will generally take expansion for example, you can take mining act for +1 leader fire and .5 tradition and sit on 90 tradition all the time, something reasonably sustainable in the late game when you've filled a few military ideas to bring tech costs down since it costs MIL.

Anybody who wants can get up to +100 tradition permanently via the above and espionage + quality, but that's probably not worth it as when you're bottoming out at 80 AT or more it's not hard to keep it farmed.

Thanks, I know that

The problem with this idea that it is hardly a game changer. It's very mediocre. Honestly I'd take morale boost, leader fire, leader shock or 10% infantry ability instead. I did permanent 100 AT this with Novgorod as well.

 

[Denkt]

You basicly only have to do one siege a year to keep it at 100 with -1 military tradition per year.

 

[1alexey]

Poor Brandenburg and Prussia - they have terrible idea set...

Indeed, by the time i get those bonuses, I no longer need them.

Teutinc order, on the other hand, has a better idea set, there is zero reason to convert to Prussia.

Would we seriously discuss curia bonuses vs missionary strength? These are not remotely bad. Not speaking about potential to flip to protestant or reformed.

Flip to catholic yourself, if you so desire, or better, flip to Sunni, and enjoy.

Poland always opens with Danzig mission. It always eats Teutons and later livonians. What does it have to do with human?

That it is easy to fight Austria, Bohemia and Hungary, as human. For AI, however, they are huge problems.

What if Poland takes quality, offensive and aristocratic?

You take same and roll over them with Numbers.

You are completely wrong about Prussia. Prussia has noble cadets which is -1% decay. That's the reason it sits on 100 AT.
Let me do math for you. Decay with innovative is 3%. At 80 AT decay would be 2.4, with table of ranks it would be 1.9. Not even close to "Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative", dude. Decay would stop at 17 AT which is not fascinating at all. This bonus is half a siege per year.

Thanks, I know that

So, I was correct, after all? :rofl:

"There is only one idea that boosts your missionary strength." You are not about being orthodox are you?

There is only religious idea group that help you convert.

Speaking about conversion. Why would you need this if you Poland has "+3 Tolerance of heretics"?

Because I want to conquer non-christian land, perhaps?

"Diplomatic and internal stability ideas are, thus, far better than military ideas." Poland can't pick these?

Because it can`t stack it.

BTW quality doesn't have 15% in it.

Yes, but later in game, morale bonus is meaningless anyway.

 

[nicechinos]

Thanks, I know that

However, I didn't follow your math. All these would allow a small decay from 70 AT.

 

[oblio-]

Poor Brandenburg and Prussia - they have terrible idea set...

Lol, i thought that playing to a strength is a core of every strategy game. He's doing the different kind of math probably.

He does have a point as far as raw expansion is concerned. I've done a WC with Castile (not-really-awesome military ideas) taking Offensive as my 8th group, because I wanted faster sieges. Without using HRE vassals.
Things that save MP are generally as strong if not stronger than direct military buffs.

Yes, something was altered. A nation that begins the game with significantly more units total (PLC combo) was granted lucky nation status, meaning that rather than being a tech backwards piece of garbage with weaker generals, those larger #s are suddenly bigger in tech and have better generals by default.

The hordes are not the reason Muscovy is struggling, at least not directly. Hordes love to pile on weak nations though, and PLC spanking Muscovy is all it takes to open a cascading chain of "kick the can while it's down".

That's why I keep an eye on Reddit and the Post your empire thread. And honestly, Russia doesn't seem to be having many problems adapting to 1.8.
It's not "pure" statistics, but it's definitely better than a sample size of 3

 

[nicechinos]

Let me do math for you. Decay with innovative is 3%. At 80 AT decay would be 2.4, with table of ranks it would be 1.9. Not even close to "Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative", dude. Decay would stop at 17 AT which is not fascinating at all. This bonus is half a siege per year.

So, I was correct, after all? :rofl:
[/QUOTE]

Should I still do 2+2 math for you?

 

[1alexey]

Lol, i thought that playing to a strength is a core of every strategy game. He's doing the different kind of math probably.

The core of strategy came, is, resource management, not mindlessly building a colossus on clay feet by stacking everything in one aspect, ignoring other important things.

Military power is easy to obtain in drowes. Monarch points are very hard to get, and Russia a lot of monarch point discounts, which make it`s ideas so good.

Should I still do 2+2 math for you?

Aww, your tears are delicious, give me more. :rofl:

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So, I was correct, after all? :rofl:

Should I still do 2+2 math for you?[/QUOTE]

Needless to say, .5 trad yearly isn't that impressive of a bonus. Russian NIs are pretty good but they're almost pure quantity. Quantity is stronger in this patch than last though due to the battle dice rule change.

Poland's cavalry is amazing until cannons take off, then it becomes increasingly less impressive as everyone is toting around 4-6 fire generals and full rows of artillery. It never becomes bad of course since that amount of combat ability is quite a large boost to damage, but later on it's a liability in the fire phase and that offsets its advantage to a significant extent, especially if the opponent can rotate in a fresh combat width of infantry mid-battle due to larger FL and cheaper units.

 

[nicechinos]

The core of strategy came, is, resource management, not mindlessly building a colossus on clay feet by stacking everything in one aspect, ignoring other important things.

Military power is easy to obtain in drowes. Monarch points are very hard to get, and Russia a lot of monarch point discounts, which make it`s ideas so good.

Aww, your tears are delicious, give me more. :rofl:

Ok, you can't handle the numbers. Don't be upset. I never thought that quality of education is so low in former USSR that "strategists" can't handle multiplication and %.

 

[oblio-]

I never thought that quality of education is so low in former USSR that "strategists" can't handle multiplying and %.

Russia is also in the former USSR, just sayin'

 

[1alexey]

Needless to say, .5 trad yearly isn't that impressive of a bonus.

Yes, but it is still a fair bonus, far better than something like +10% production eff.

Poland's cavalry is amazing until cannons take off, then it becomes increasingly less impressive as everyone is toting around 4-6 fire generals and full rows of artillery. It never becomes bad of course since that amount of combat ability is quite a large boost to damage, but later on it's a liability in the fire phase and that offsets its advantage to a significant extent, especially if the opponent can rotate in a fresh combat width of infantry mid-battle due to larger FL and cheaper units.

Not to mention you don`t get that NI very fast, you would be somewhere near tech 12-13 when it hits, thus there is like 50 years window where the bonus is actually strong, then, it quickly becomes irrelevant.

 

[nicechinos]

Should I still do 2+2 math for you?

Needless to say, .5 trad yearly isn't that impressive of a bonus. Russian NIs are pretty good but they're almost pure quantity. Quantity is stronger in this patch than last though due to the battle dice rule change.

Poland's cavalry is amazing until cannons take off, then it becomes increasingly less impressive as everyone is toting around 4-6 fire generals and full rows of artillery. It never becomes bad of course since that amount of combat ability is quite a large boost to damage, but later on it's a liability in the fire phase and that offsets its advantage to a significant extent, especially if the opponent can rotate in a fresh combat width of infantry mid-battle due to larger FL and cheaper units.[/QUOTE]

I'd agree with that. I would still take any decent quality boost (shock/fire/ infantry combat ability or morale boost over that). Swedes are so swedes early game. AT is aless meaningfull for Russia mid-late game (when this idea is unlocked) as farming opportunities are plentiful. Central Asia, Ottomans, HRE, China, colonies, carpet sieging of Ming and Timurids.

 

[nicechinos]

Yes, but it is still a fair bonus, far better than something like +10% production eff.

Not to mention you don`t get that NI very fast, you would be somewhere near tech 12-13 when it hits, thus there is like 50 years window where the bonus is actually strong, then, it quickly becomes irrelevant.

Russia does have +10% production efficiency. So in that sense it is on even footing with Poland.

 

[nicechinos]

Russia is also in the former USSR, just sayin'

Sure, what's the problem with that?

 

[Mortheim]

Indeed, by the time i get those bonuses, I no longer need them.

Ok. Simple example:
Brandenburg have superior military ideas (top tier ideas, if you want to be warmonger). So, you can choose your idea sets based on your NIs. You can grab administrative for better mercs and -25% coring cost. Or you can go full warmonger with ~100% army tradition.
As Muscovy you have good set of expansion ideas. So, you can go quality or improve your ideas with quantity+expansion.

Basically, you're choosing between improving your weaknesses or maximizing your strengths.

 

[nicechinos]

Ok. Simple example:
Brandenburg have superior military ideas (top tier ideas, if you want to be warmonger). So, you can choose your idea sets based on your NIs. You can grab administrative for better mercs and -25% coring cost. Or you can go full warmonger with ~100% army tradition.
As Muscovy you have good set of expansion ideas. So, you can go quality or improve your ideas with quantity+expansion.

Basically, you're choosing between improving your weaknesses or maximizing your strengths.

"not mindlessly building a colossus on clay feet by stacking everything in one aspect, ignoring other important things."
Choice and focus is just not his cup of tea. Equally mediocre is the way to go.

 

[oblio-]

Ok, you can't handle the numbers. Don't be upset. I never thought that quality of education is so low in former USSR that "strategists" can't handle multiplication and %.

Russia is also in the former USSR, just sayin'

Sure, what's the problem with that?

Nothing, it's just funny :laugh:

How I imagine nicechinos face while writing in this topic:

 

[nicechinos]

Nothing, it's just funny :laugh:

How I imagine nicechinos face while writing in this topic:

"Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative." Face value of it is +0.5 and -2% decay. Do you want a lesson, too?
It's hilarious. You are a king of comedian we deserve but not a kind we need at this moment. We are discussing some serious stuff, you know, bro. What was your expression when you were typing that most "Russians are of Tatar or Asian origin"?

 

[oblio-]

"Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative." Face value of it is +0.5 and -2% decay? Do you want a lesson, too?

Man, chill, re-read my post and notice the irony of your previous comment

I don't care about the army tradition argument, either way

 

[nicechinos]

Man, chill, re-read my post and notice the irony of your previous comment

I don't care about the army tradition argument, either way

Don't tell me to chill out when we are fishing for quality of Romanian education.