Muscovy have been majorly nerfed

[Denkt]

The 173% strength polish cavalry disagree.
And that Poland would also have to take espionage so while its cavalry massacre its enemies its spies can give some other nasty things to think about.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

PLC is formed later in the game (around 1550) so Lithuania doesn't receive unrest bonuses early game. "Muscovy winds up fighting an advanced nation " Where does advanced nation comes from? Muscovy has very good heir in mil skill. In my games Muscovy didn't fight PLC at all. So PLC is not a prime/the only reason. Something in AI was tweaked. Even against Poland it's lucky vs lucky.

Poland gets better rulers due to lucky, and a better general due to lucky. Muscovy is the same as previous patch.

In other words, you're talking about the same # and quality of troops for Muscovy fighting troops that are led by a significantly better general and at least one nation that is better in tech than it was previously. What's odd to me is that you don't think that this will consistently impact the outcome.

 

[nicechinos]

Russian NIs are better than Polands.
Poland get less bonuses than quality idea will give you, except for cavalry power and morale, but cavalry power is not that huge deal. Poland, on the other hand, can`t compensate Russian ideas quantity by simply picking quantity idea group.

Besides, Russia get`s a tech discount, army tradition, colonist, coring cost and missionary strength.

Poland get`s slightly stronger army ideas, while Muscowy get`s much stronger expansion ideas.

PLC around 1550 is quite comparable to Russia in terms of manpower with quantity. I did a run without quantity and I decimated opponents with offensive and quality.
+0.5 military tradition is laughable. You can mine more fighting rebels. Poland has university from day one. It has the same access to Western Arms trade. It has plenty of expansion opportunities into really wealthy lands of Teutons and not so wealthy Livonians, which are the same religion as Poland. Hungary is quite an easy target as well. So is Wallachia.


+25% National manpower modifier
+10% Infantry combat ability
+33% Cavalry combat ability
-10% Regiment cost
+5% Discipline
+15% Morale of armies

Why would you need 1kk of MP with such ideas. These are freakingly awesome.

 

[herrmarisa]

The 173% strength polish cavalry disagree.
And that Poland would also have to take espionage so while its cavalry massacre its enemies its spies can give some other nasty things to think about.

Poland also usually gets Aristocratic NI's, which makes their cavalry even worse :'(

 

[nicechinos]

Poland gets better rulers due to lucky, and a better general due to lucky. Muscovy is the same as previous patch.

In other words, you're talking about the same # and quality of troops for Muscovy fighting troops that are led by a significantly better general and at least one nation that is better in tech than it was previously. What's odd to me is that you don't think that this will consistently impact the outcome.

It will but Muscovy runs into trouble before that happens.

 

[hitchens]

Too bad, you should consider playing Hungary if you are so bored. I heard it's quite fascinating nation to play especially if you have so hard feelings for Muscovy.

I have played Hungary manyu times. A fun nation, but not that difficult.

 

[nicechinos]

I have played Hungary manyu times. A fun nation, but not that difficult.

I'm happy for you, mate.

 

[herrmarisa]

PLC around 1550 is quite comparable to Russia in terms of manpower with quantity. I did a run without quantity and I decimated opponents with offensive and quality.
+0.5 military tradition is laughable. You can mine more fighting rebels. Poland has university from day one. It has the same access to Western Arms trade. It has plenty of expansion opportunities into really wealthy lands of Teutons and not so wealthy Livonians, which are the same religion as Poland. Hungary is quite an easy target as well. So is Wallachia.


+25% National manpower modifier
+10% Infantry combat ability
+33% Cavalry combat ability
-10% Regiment cost
+5% Discipline
+15% Morale of armies

Why would you need 1kk of MP with such ideas. These are freakingly awesome.

Yes, I was pretty damn decimated yesterday when I saw these ideas. Paradox must surely have a Pole in their ranks

 

[nicechinos]

Yes, I was pretty damn decimated yesterday when I saw these ideas. Paradox must surely have a Pole in their ranks

It is top 5 in terms of military.

 

[Denkt]

Poland also usually gets Aristocratic NI's, which makes their cavalry even worse :'(

You have to get aristocratic to get the 20% cav strength policy, the other needed is espionage.

 

[nicechinos]

It is top 5 in terms of military.

They saved HRE's and Western Europe asses once, they deserve it until 1648. After that their ideas should be changed

 

[herrmarisa]

You are heading a wrong way, mate: Ukrainian official history will allways be >> than Russian official history about Ukraine and vice versa. This is why none of pro-Ukrainian users here didn't post anything about Muscovy being a Tartar ulus till 1480, about Russia forming only in XVIII century and about finno-ugric roots of Muscovian principality and later on about most Russians being half-mongol\uzbek\chuvash\tartar.

That's because it's utter nonsense. Besides, I've seen at least a couple of such Ukrainians here trying to tell me I'm in fact a Tartar, despite being able to pass as a Scandinavian in terms of appearance.

(god damn, these discussions about who is more white/who is a Tatar/whatever are absolutely pathetic and make me cringe)

 

[nicechinos]

That's because it's utter nonsense. Besides, I've seen at least a couple of such Ukrainians here trying to tell me I'm in fact a Tartar, despite being able to pass as a Scandinavian in terms of appearance.

(god damn, these discussions about who is more white/who is a Tatar/whatever are absolutely pathetic and make me cringe)

Cmn, can we please not have these conversations in this forum?

 

[Mortheim]

Yes, I was pretty damn decimated yesterday when I saw these ideas. Paradox must surely have a Pole in their ranks

You should be happy, that they don't have our dear Zak Preston in their ranks. Or Russian culture would be in tartar culture group.

It is top 5 in terms of military.

Porta depends on janissaries. I've played 3 or 4 games and had first janissary event only once (with ~100% army tradition).

 

[1alexey]

PLC around 1550 is quite comparable to Russia in terms of manpower with quantity. I did a run without quantity and I decimated opponents with offensive and quality.

So? Russia is perfectly comparable in quality to Poland, if it takes Quality.

+0.5 military tradition is laughable. You can mine more fighting rebels.

it also reduces the decay, which actually is huge.
The reason why Brandenburg can sit on 100% AT consistently is those 0.5 AT.
Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative.

Poland has university from day one. It has the same access to Western Arms trade. It has plenty of expansion opportunities into really wealthy lands of Teutons and not so wealthy Livonians, which are the same religion as Poland. Hungary is quite an easy target as well. So is Wallachia.

Yes, human is OP, what else?

+25% National manpower modifier
+10% Infantry combat ability
+33% Cavalry combat ability
-10% Regiment cost
+5% Discipline
+15% Morale of armies

Why would you need 1kk of MP with such ideas. These are freakingly awesome.

This ideas are terrible, because they are way too focused. If played correctly military power is something you don`t care past 1550, and if for some reason you still do, pick another military NI, there are plenty of those.

Ideas saving monarch power, on the other hand are much more valuable, and are much more rare.
There is only one idea that increases you coring cost.
There is only one idea that boosts your missionary strength.
Extra colonists come from two.

Diplomatic and internal stability ideas are, thus, far better than military ideas.

You should be happy, that they don't have our dear Zak Preston in their ranks. Or Russian culture would be in tartar culture group.

That would be a huge buff, despite lack of any historical reasoning.

 

[Mortheim]

This ideas are terrible, because they are way too focused. If played correctly military power is something you don`t care past 1550, and if for some reason you still do, pick another military NI, there are plenty of those.

Poor Brandenburg and Prussia - they have terrible idea set...

 

[nicechinos]

So? Russia is perfectly comparable in quality to Poland, if it takes Quality.

it also reduces the decay, which actually is huge.
The reason why Brandenburg can sit on 100% AT consistently is those 0.5 AT.
Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative.

Yes, human is OP, what else?

This ideas are terrible, because they are way too focused. If played correctly military power is something you don`t care past 1550, and if for some reason you still do, pick another military NI, there are plenty of those.

Ideas saving monarch power, on the other hand are much more valuable, and are much more rare.
There is only one idea that increases you coring cost.
There is only one idea that boosts your missionary strength.
Extra colonists come from two.

Diplomatic and internal stability ideas are, thus, far better than military ideas.

That would be a huge buff, despite lack of any historical reasoning.

Would we seriously discuss curia bonuses vs missionary strength? These are not remotely bad. Not speaking about potential to flip to protestant or reformed. Poland always opens with Danzig mission. It always eats Teutons and later livonians. What does it have to do with human?
What if Poland takes quality, offensive and aristocratic?

You are completely wrong about Prussia. Prussia has noble cadets which is -1% decay. That's the reason it sits on 100 AT.
Let me do math for you. Decay with innovative is 3%. At 80 AT decay would be 2.4, with table of ranks it would be 1.9. Not even close to "Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative", dude. Decay would stop at 17 AT which is not fascinating at all. This bonus is half a siege per year.

"There is only one idea that boosts your missionary strength." You are not about being orthodox are you? Speaking about conversion. Why would you need this if you Poland has "+3 Tolerance of heretics"?
"Diplomatic and internal stability ideas are, thus, far better than military ideas." Poland can't pick these?



BTW quality doesn't have 15% morale in it.

 

[nicechinos]

Poor Brandenburg and Prussia - they have terrible idea set...

Lol, i thought that playing to a strength is a core of every strategy game. He's doing the different kind of math probably.

 

[Pornek]

Lol, i thought that playing to a strength is a core of every strategy game. He's doing the different kind of math probably.

He's still right about the point that point saving ideas trump over all others.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Decay with innovative is 3%. At 80 AT decay would be 2.4, with table of ranks it would be 1.9. Not even close to "Russia can sit on 80% permenently, afaik with innovative", dude. Decay would stop at 17 AT which is not fascinating at all. This bonus is half a siege per year.

Prussia at 100% assumes defensive/innovative/war college unique building.

Russia with those 3 things + NIs will have +.5 trad (NI), +.5 trad (building), +1 trad (defensive) and -3% decay due to the -2% in innovative. This results in a decay of 1 per year at 100 tradition, and will indeed allow for 0 decay at 80 tradition.

Of course, any generic nation can get +1.5 tradition and -3 decay and sit at 70. If you involve policies, any nation can sit at 100 actually. For Russia which will generally take expansion for example, you can take mining act for +1 leader fire and .5 tradition and sit on 90 tradition all the time, something reasonably sustainable in the late game when you've filled a few military ideas to bring tech costs down since it costs MIL.

Anybody who wants can get up to +100 tradition permanently via the above and espionage + quality, but that's probably not worth it as when you're bottoming out at 80 AT or more it's not hard to keep it farmed.