Muscovy have been majorly nerfed

[D-A-C]

Good.

Makes the game less predictable.

I hate responses like this.

I have started 3 games, one admittedly in the region as the Golden horde, and all 3 times they are getting stomped.

Hardly less predictable is it?

I swear some people have some anti-major biases that they bring to these forums, its ridiculous.

 

[anomalacaris]

I hate responses like this.

I have started 3 games, one admittedly in the region as the Golden horde, and all 3 times they are getting stomped.

Hardly less predictable is it?

I swear some people have some anti-major biases that they bring to these forums, its ridiculous.

I am curious, in all my games they are the one stomping until I get in the region.
Are people playing with Lucky on?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I hate responses like this.

I have started 3 games, one admittedly in the region as the Golden horde, and all 3 times they are getting stomped.

Hardly less predictable is it?

I swear some people have some anti-major biases that they bring to these forums, its ridiculous.

A sample size of 3 isn't useful at all.

Russia still forms and becomes a power often, it's just not the lock it's been in recent patches. This is due to a combination of the new rebellion mechanics, lucky Poland, and the unnecessary breakup of the Tartar culture making it much less common for Muscovy to get that accepted.

 

[giant_sloth]

Yeah.

Btw, I believe cultural unions should have a discount on culture converting provinces they fully accept. In case of Russia that makes perfect sense. Surely healing people of their mental wounds caused by prolonged foreign occupation is much easier than replacing total foreginers with your faithful servants. It makes me sad thinking how bringing Kiev back to Russian world costs the same as, say, establishing yourself in Paris.

Why would someone want to convert a culture you accept as a cultural union? I mean, it can be done, sure, but why waste MP on that? Cultural unions are supposed to spare you from that!

 

[D-A-C]

I am curious, in all my games they are the one stomping until I get in the region.
Are people playing with Lucky on?

I play Ironman only.

Here is an example:

Now, okay fair enough, they took out Novgorod, but they have been beaten by Poland-Lithuania a few times, and Uzbek has had them blocked off like that for I'd say a century at least. I think it's primarily coming from the Hordes doing better if you can believe that considering all the posts about their nerfs lol.

By 1623 in every pre-1.8 patch I have never seen them do so bad, so consistently (well 3 games lol, and as I said I did contribute to their decline in one, but still).

Now, maybe it is just coincidence, but it is something I have noticed so far, which is why I posted.


EDIT

A sample size of 3 isn't useful at all.

Russia still forms and becomes a power often, it's just not the lock it's been in recent patches. This is due to a combination of the new rebellion mechanics, lucky Poland, and the unnecessary breakup of the Tartar culture making it much less common for Muscovy to get that accepted.

I was merely responding that I experienced the same thing, if someone else started the thread it's hardly just me, and I haven't read through and found if anyone else was finding the same thing.

I was merely responding that it is something happening in my games, okay, so its only 3, but considering their pre-1.8 performance where arguably they never had a bad game, even 3 is enough to suggest something altered don't you think?

 

[Zak Preston]

Now this is really weird. I mean, I fully understand how the concept of Germany had been there many years before the actual unification took place in 1871, but what is Ruthenia? Is it meant to be restoration of Kievan Rus just under an odd name? "Ruthenia"... it resembles mythical Tartaria, which no one has ever actually seen.

You are heading a wrong way, mate: Ukrainian official history will allways be >> than Russian official history about Ukraine and vice versa. This is why none of pro-Ukrainian users here didn't post anything about Muscovy being a Tartar ulus till 1480, about Russia forming only in XVIII century and about finno-ugric roots of Muscovian principality and later on about most Russians being half-mongol\uzbek\chuvash\tartar.
Just simply have some respect to other cultures. What you are trying to start here will eventually lead to this thread's shutdown.

P.S. Ruthenia is easilly formed as PLC after culture change: you will form Rus much faster than Muscovy forms Russia

 

[Ignatich]

You are heading a wrong way, mate: Ukrainian official history will allways be >> than Russian official history about Ukraine and vice versa. This is why none of pro-Ukrainian users here doesn't post about Muscovy being a Tartar ulus till 1480, about Russia forming only in XVIII century and about finno-ugric roots of Muscovian principality and later on about most Russians being half-mongol\uzbek\chuvash\tartar.
Just simply have some respect to other cultures. What you are trying to start here will eventually lead to this thread's shutdown.

Yeah, except you.

 

[Zak Preston]

A sample size of 3 isn't useful at all.

Russia still forms and becomes a power often, it's just not the lock it's been in recent patches. This is due to a combination of the new rebellion mechanics, lucky Poland, and the unnecessary breakup of the Tartar culture making it much less common for Muscovy to get that accepted.

'

Russia even westernized successfully in 2 of my 1.8 ironman games.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I was merely responding that it is something happening in my games, okay, so its only 3, but considering their pre-1.8 performance where arguably they never had a bad game, even 3 is enough to suggest something altered don't you think?

Yes, something was altered. A nation that begins the game with significantly more units total (PLC combo) was granted lucky nation status, meaning that rather than being a tech backwards piece of garbage with weaker generals, those larger #s are suddenly bigger in tech and have better generals by default.

The hordes are not the reason Muscovy is struggling, at least not directly. Hordes love to pile on weak nations though, and PLC spanking Muscovy is all it takes to open a cascading chain of "kick the can while it's down".

 

[DicRoNero]

Why would someone want to convert a culture you accept as a cultural union? I mean, it can be done, sure, but why waste MP on that? Cultural unions are supposed to spare you from that!

It makes you safe from Patriot/Nationalist Sentiments, and if you're overextended often, it's useful. Also, should you be interested in that sort of things, the likehood of Revolutioneers to rise up is higher, thus making it easier to convert from Monarchy to Republic, which is usually really hard.

 

[Zak Preston]

Yeah, except you.

I didn't say anything, just stated that someone could post here those theories on a serious note (which would always be inferior to official Russian history) unless some superreasonable proofs will be presented. But same goes for Russians too.

 

[vonlinchen]

Not implying one way or the other but hours played does not equate understanding.

I play regularly with people who've 600+ hours and still think that the combat system is just mil tech and army size.

 

[nicechinos]

A sample size of 3 isn't useful at all.

Russia still forms and becomes a power often, it's just not the lock it's been in recent patches. This is due to a combination of the new rebellion mechanics, lucky Poland, and the unnecessary breakup of the Tartar culture making it much less common for Muscovy to get that accepted.

It's useful. What's the probability of having three bad runs in a row in 1.8 after 50 successful runs in a row in 1.7? The deviation from 1.7 is significant. They never had a bad run in my 1.7 experience (tens of starts) and out of three current they were locked from expansion each time. PLC is not a main reason if reason at all. Only Poland is lucky, Lithuania is a paper tiger ready to explode without humanism with tons of LA at the start. Less aggressiveness towards Novgorod and inability to conquer it is a thing in 1.8. I don't find it particularly fascinating.

 

[nicechinos]

I didn't say anything, just stated that someone could post here those theories on a serious note (which would always be inferior to official Russian history) unless some superreasonable proofs will be presented. But same goes for Russians too.

Zak, is it possible to have these conversation outside EU4 forum? It's not the most pleasant read, honestly. Besides it's not particularly relevant to the topic.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's useful. What's the probability of having three bad runs in a row in 1.8 after 50 successful runs in a row in 1.7? The deviation from 1.7 is significant. They never had a bad run in my 1.7 experience (tens of starts) and out of three current they were locked from expansion each time. PLC is not a main reason if reason at all. Only Poland is lucky, Lithuania is a paper tiger ready to explode without humanism with tons of LA at the start. Less aggressiveness towards Novgorod and inability to conquer it is a thing in 1.8. I don't find it particularly fascinating.
http://imgur.com/pjc06AB

"only Poland is lucky". In other words, rather than a backwards nation, Muscovy winds up fighting an advanced nation that gets to toss a much stronger general onto superior numbers, in a patch where numerical superiority got buffed. You don't think this is a significant factor? I'm consistently seeing players claim that their failed Muscovy fought Poland + Lithuania and lost. Sure enough, in the SS what has happened? Muscovy lost to Poland/Lith and Lith is deep in its territory.

Keep in mind that if commonwealth forms, the lucky -1 unrest becomes a factor too.

 

[nicechinos]

"only Poland is lucky". In other words, rather than a backwards nation, Muscovy winds up fighting an advanced nation that gets to toss a much stronger general onto superior numbers, in a patch where numerical superiority got buffed. You don't think this is a significant factor? I'm consistently seeing players claim that their failed Muscovy fought Poland + Lithuania and lost. Sure enough, in the SS what has happened? Muscovy lost to Poland/Lith and Lith is deep in its territory.

Keep in mind that if commonwealth forms, the lucky -1 unrest becomes a factor too.

PLC is formed later in the game (around 1550) so Lithuania doesn't receive unrest bonuses early game. "Muscovy winds up fighting an advanced nation " Where does advanced nation comes from? Muscovy has very good heir in mil skill. In my games Muscovy didn't fight PLC at all. So PLC is not a prime/the only reason. Something in AI was tweaked. Even against Poland it's lucky vs lucky.

 

[hitchens]

Hungary stronk, Hungary interesting,Hungary can into space. Move along, Sir. Do you copy-paste this comment into every topic?

I'm not Hungarian.

I honestly quit due to early game regency

Learn to play, mate. Stop whining. Just learn to play.

Heh.

 

[nicechinos]

I'm not Hungarian.

Too bad, you should consider playing Hungary if you are so bored. I heard it's quite fascinating nation to play especially if you have so hard feelings for Muscovy.

 

[nicechinos]

I'm not Hungarian.

Heh.

Is out of context your thing? "to early game regency and absence of any particularly warm feelings for the colour or ideas or national flavour" Can you read that far? Did you see me complaining that Hungary needs to be buffed?

 

[1alexey]

I wouldn't ask for sample size study this time (outside Times of Troubles time period). I'll just ask one question:
Poland/ Lithuania ceased to exist as independent nations in 18th century. Still Poland have amazingly OP ideas. Does that bother you or is it for balance sake?

Russian NIs are better than Polands.
Poland get less bonuses than quality idea will give you, except for cavalry power and morale, but cavalry power is not that huge deal. Poland, on the other hand, can`t compensate Russian ideas quantity by simply picking quantity idea group.

Besides, Russia get`s a tech discount, army tradition, colonist, coring cost and missionary strength.

Poland get`s slightly stronger army ideas, while Muscowy get`s much stronger expansion ideas.