Muscovy have been majorly nerfed

[Gigawot]

Just started a game as muscovy and played as far as 1540 but they cannot compete anywhere near as well as last patch.

I went expansion and have the first 3 ideas so i can colonise siberia fairly well even though the 50% LA of 1 base tax provinces are basically useless.
Then i went full humanist so that i could actually survive since i have to keep most provinces at 50% LA so that there is no unrest.
This leaves muscovy with simply too little manpower or income to compete with Nogai/Sibir/Lithuania(who arnt in PU), or even sweden OR norway (neither PU) ON THEIR OWN. I have 60k manpower... in my game NORWAY HAS THE SAME...

Simply put some of them are allied and since noone allies with muscovy due to the heritical religion, so even though they are positive of me, i hate them so no alliance..
This means i am getting destroyed rapidly. Simply put Muscovy are no longer a super power since they cannot even get that far and in the majority of my other games since 1.8 they getting destroyed early.
Muscovy may get some of the best NIs but when they cannot even use them then whats the point? Having to go humanist to survive is BS, i needed military techs but again i cant.

Im done with this game till they sort this LA BS out, crippling having a country at 50% LA for the whole game, with some at 75%.

 

[vonHassenstein]

In my current Hansa game Muscovy is doing very poorly, compared to earlier versions of the game. They lost Perm before annexing them and were beat by Novgorod. Well, I guess I can grab Siberia now

 

[wolfing]

So I guess they're not extremely OP, just majorly OP right now?

 

[nicechinos]

Common, the game became much easier. Especially for Muscovy as you need no humanist or religious to conquer all the steppes. Rebels long gone, you've got amazing CBs of vassal hordes.
Simply put you need to learn the game.

 

[Gigawot]

No there not OP at all, they just get beaten to a pulp every game ive played (100 hours of 1.8 already), they just cannot survive with the LA nerfing same continent colonies as well as having to go humanist over military ideas to survive from the revolts... well paradox are swedish so it kinda makes sense xD

and yes you DO need humanist or religious since you cannot keep the provinces/they are useless without them..

 

[mgoetze]

Awwww poor you.

 

[nicechinos]

No there not OP at all, they just get beaten to a pulp every game ive played (100 hours of 1.8 already), they just cannot survive with the LA nerfing same continent colonies as well as having to go humanist over military ideas to survive from the revolts... well paradox are swedish so it kinda makes sense xD

and yes you DO need humanist or religious since you cannot keep the provinces/they are useless without them..

You need to learn the game. The number one rule is to make quality conquest before going expansion conquest. It's possible to go full expansion conquest (N. Africa, Asia, HRE) without ever taking Religious or Humanist thanks to advanced vassal feeding and flexible LA.
You have Novgorod, very vulnerable PLC with tons of right religion/ same culture group and Livonian western arms trade not to mention very good heir and very good starting general. After you finish off Novgorod and eat Belarus and Ruthenia lands you have 100k manpower with no revolts. You have dominant control of 3 trade nodes and decent trade income. So what's the buzz? BTW BTW PLC is a lootfest. which makes incredibly rich quick

 

[Basterbane]

You have greatest allies on your side as Muscovy. Winter and Attrition. If you are in war with Scandinavia then scorch border provinces and retreat to higher supply provinces with defensive bonus.

Lithuania is tricky since you have massive border with them but it should also apply. Lure them into low base tax province and wait till their manpower runs out.
Watch someone like DDRJake to see how you "loot" bigger enemies. Lithuania is huge and there is plenty of land to loot. Even if you loose 2 or 3 regiments of mercs its not the end of the world.
Break Lithuania, annex all their Russian culture group provinces (using Vassals).

Did you consider taking Quantity idea maybe? Even more manpower, cheaper units, higher force limit.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Good.

Makes the game less predictable.

 

[Gigawot]

100k really? I have all that land. all novgorod+ all livonia and yet i only have 60k.. i also have most of kazan/ some of lithuania and some goldon horde.. OH WAIT I KNOW WHY BECAUSE I HAVE TO HAVE 75% AUTONOMY!! do i want revolts every 20 years or to lose 50 miltary points every 5 years? no i dont. so high LA is needed even with humanist ideas. so yeah... thats how it is.

i know how to loot and use scorch earth. doesnt work when they have over double my army/manpower combined.

 

[nicechinos]

You have greatest allies on your side as Muscovy. Winter and Attrition. If you are in war with Scandinavia then scorch border provinces and retreat to higher supply provinces with defensive bonus.

Lithuania is tricky since you have massive border with them but it should also apply. Lure them into low base tax province and wait till their manpower runs out.
Watch someone like DDRJake to see how you "loot" bigger enemies. Lithuania is huge and there is plenty of land to loot. Even if you loose 2 or 3 regiments of mercs its not the end of the world.
Break Lithuania, annex all their Russian culture group provinces (using Vassals).

Did you consider taking Quantity idea maybe? Even more manpower, cheaper units, higher force limit.

Quantity is the worst suggestion for Muscovy. Feeding same group/religion lands to vassal result in much worse economy and manpower because once diploannexed the lands will start with 75% LA.

 

[MiniaAr]

Quantity is the worst suggestion for Muscovy. Feeding same group/religion lands to vassal result in much worse economy and manpower because once diploannexed the lands will start with 75% LA.

Jup, you feed Hordes and you conquer Ruthenia/Belarus, that's the way to go in my book.

 

[Basterbane]

Quantity is the worst suggestion for Muscovy. Feeding same group/religion lands to vassal result in much worse economy and manpower because once diploannexed the lands will start with 75% LA.

I had no idea There goes my theory crafting xD

 

[nicechinos]

100k really? I have all that land. all novgorod+ all livonia and yet i only have 60k.. i also have most of kazan/ some of lithuania and some goldon horde.. OH WAIT I KNOW WHY BECAUSE I HAVE TO HAVE 75% AUTONOMY!! do i want revolts every 20 years or to lose 50 miltary points every 5 years? no i dont. so high LA is needed even with humanist ideas. so yeah... thats how it is.

i know how to loot and use scorch earth. doesnt work when they have over double my army/manpower combined.

You just can't play this game. That's the problem. No revolts, no increase in LA ever and 108K manpower. 3 very strong vassals. Two mil techs ahead of Austria. 34 ducats a month. What could be easier? Annexing Livonia is the worst thing you can do as Muscovy early game as you get no cheaper tech bonus from them.
http://imgur.com/rk22C1e

You make tons of really bad mistakes and complain that something is terribly nerfed. Muscovy doesn't have top tier ideas (and has a couple of absolutely useless) but your problem is not connected with this.

 

[anomalacaris]

I'm not sure why you think Muscovy in particular is nerfed from LA. The same LA problem apply to er.. anyone who expand?
If you have to really force one, fragmented tartar culture can be considered a nerf at Muscovy, but at the same time you have access to tribal conquest CB.

 

[Avalen]

Muscovy went from being super OP to being just kinda OP and people moan. Siberian colonization was ridiculously powerful before. Unrealistically so. It's much better now.

 

[nicechinos]

I had no idea There goes my theory crafting xD

It's valid once they complete second Aristocratic idea. Before that it is much better to core it straightaway.

 

[anomalacaris]

Muscovy went from being super OP to being just kinda OP and people moan. Siberian colonization was ridiculously powerful before. Unrealistically so. It's much better now.

It was ridiculously powerful when production is the same for all tax provinces and when Siberia tax were like twice higher. It stop being very powerful long ago. Russian power most came from good homeland+tartarland, as well as easy expansion in Asia.

 

[nicechinos]

Jup, you feed Hordes and you conquer Ruthenia/Belarus, that's the way to go in my book.

That's optimal. No need to annex horde vassals before getting all the handy missionary strength decisions. Coupled with DoF it will do the conversion trick without religious or humanist.

 

[Gigawot]

i cant play this game? well go f yourself. Anyway how are your finnish vassels doing? those revolts look amazing. I did exactly what i did last patch. finland vassel, large pskov vassel and expansion into lithunaia while colonising and attacking sibir. only thing that has changed has been the patch. but what do i know with 800 hours in EU4 and 100 in 1.8.. i can say that without a doubt every single game i have played in 1.8 has resulted in muscovy being destroyed. so now the AI has been nerfed as well, while taking a MAJOR power out of the game. apart from that the patch still hasnt been fixed a week on but what do i know? i mean everygame coming out at the moment is untested and buggy as hell. noone cares anymore.