Muscovy Check list for someone who is a bit rusty

[towerbooks3192]

I always started with Muscovy and I have grasped most of the game with Muscovy so I am pretty comfortable with it by now. I have all the expansion but with all the new features on, I am getting really rusty (as if I am good in the first place). I never play on ironman and usually disable lucky nations or at least make it random. Any check list for solid strategies as Muscovy? I am still getting used to the new mechanics and how useful vassals are now.

 

[Zupanicarr]

I don't know what you mean by checklists? However you're playing as Russia(sorta), you only need one strategy. Numbers.

 

[Hamor]

No point playing muscovy anymore, as Paradox has fucked the PA authority gaining, split all the tartars into subgroups so you can't get them accepted and made the LA cap. Muscovy is piss weak and I find that 90% of my sp games they get full annexed hard even been seeing em lose wars to Novgorod lol..

 

[Illianor123]

No point playing muscovy anymore, as Paradox has fucked the PA authority gaining, split all the tartars into subgroups so you can't get them accepted and made the LA cap. Muscovy is piss weak and I find that 90% of my sp games they get full annexed hard even been seeing em lose wars to Novgorod lol..

Muscovy now does worse in the AI hands but is still an easy player start.

Ally Denmark. Eat Novgorod. Leave time for manpower to recover. Eat Kazan and hordes. Increase Local Autonomy for minimal revolts.

Colonising Siberia is no longer as OP, but is still worthwhile doing.

Patriarchal Authority is now really slow.

Get religious ideas for the CB against everyone and so you can convert sunni lands.

 

[ahyangyi]

No point playing muscovy anymore, as Paradox has fucked the PA authority gaining, split all the tartars into subgroups so you can't get them accepted and made the LA cap. Muscovy is piss weak and I find that 90% of my sp games they get full annexed hard even been seeing em lose wars to Novgorod lol..

Which is why you should pick Religious instead of Humanism.

 

[towerbooks3192]

Ok. So first idea is religious? I used to pick defensive or quantity as a first idea. I am a bit confused with all these new stuff like power projection and marches. I will have to restart since I was stupid enough to designate novgorod as a march only to realise it is needed for Russia. I need some solid strategies for Muscovy after all the changes and expansions and that is what I meant by a checklist.

 

[Illianor123]

Ok. So first idea is religious? I used to pick defensive or quantity as a first idea. I am a bit confused with all these new stuff like power projection and marches. I will have to restart since I was stupid enough to designate novgorod as a march only to realise it is needed for Russia. I need some solid strategies for Muscovy after all the changes and expansions and that is what I meant by a checklist.

Marches are only useful if you don't intend to expand in that direction again.

Military ideas first can often mean falling behind in the key early military techs. Generally I prefer quality or offensive over quality first because Muscovy can already fling enough men at anybody, and this just increases the quality of said men.

Just designate rivals straight away for the bonus per year. Make sure Novgorod is one of them and you should get the mission that gives you claims over them all. Make sure you keep relations up with Poland as well so when they get the union over Lithuania they don't get DOW you.

 

[Enewald]

Kick Novgorod down before you even pause the game. Your first mission will probably be to subjugate Novgorod anyway.
Take a lot of land, release Finland in Kexholm/Karelia, then attack Sweden when they are still weak and make them give land to your Finnish vassal. Start annexing minor Russian states, wait to find which horde got beaten most and beat them even further. By this point you are already the biggest bully in the yard and then it is just about 100 years of grinding down the local hordes, beating Lithuania/Commonwealth from time to time and beating more Asian hordes.
Get the idea that gives you Holy War CB, then also Quantity ideas for more manpower, large army and faster recovery. Maybe trade idea to get more income from trade, or expansion for faster colonization. With good luck you might reach California before other colonizers. Some idea that gives you more diplomats and influence might be helpful, as coring horde provinces gets expensive, so make them always vassals if possible to save admin points.
Then watch Asia turn green.

Getting Baltic provinces might also be helpful. Maybe move your tradeport to Baltic node if you have enough provinces and tradepower there.
Getting Kiev/Galichia/Polotsk/Zaporizhia/Chernigov are also helpful when expanding cheaply towards Polands due to their cores in those areas.

 

[Denkt]

Do a day one dow on Kazar which you can because of Perm.
If you can make them a vassal.
You can use the hords cb on other hordes, feed it sunni provinces by transfer occupation which you do by clicking on the shield above/below the text occupied by.
While fighting the horde you should be able to pick a mission that give you claim on Novegrod which you should have little problem with.
Feed all useless Novegrod land to Yaroslav (transfer occupation), the little country next to Yaroslav should also be feeded to Yaroslav.
Get a war with Lithuaina and get their WE high and they will implode.
Get religious as first idea group and get its first idea for the great cb on all non Orthodox neighbours.
For next idea I think admistrative is a good pick, mercs are very useful and trend to be my army because manpower tend to be a problem even with the bonus and loans aren't scarry compared to what you can gain or lose.
The rest of admistrative is useful to.

 

[panionios]

1444-1454

Ally Denmark.
DOW Novgorod. Grab as much land as possible and release Finland (and make vassal: marriage, alliance and a bit of gold are enough to diplo-vassalize).
Ally Poland (after their PU with Lithuania). You want Lithuania in a PU to run wild in the first two decades.
DOW Tver/Ryazan. Vassalize Ryazan and annex Tver.
DOW Livonia when at war with Poland (they are allied to Teutons who always get attacked by Poland after the PU with Lithuania). Vassalize after they have made peace with Poland (or you'll be dragged in the war against Poland). Turn Riga to Orthodox (they will join Livonia in this war). Take a single province that allows fabricating a claim on Riga, then sell back to Livonia.

All the above mean having 8 diplo relations (POL-DEN as allies, Ryazan, Pskov, Yaroslav, Finland, Perm, Livonia as vassals)! Don't worry. You have a 5 diplo heir waiting. You will be making at least 1 diplo point per month.

1454-1464

Start annexing Yaroslav and Perm (to open the way for Siberia) to reduce diplo relations to 6.
Finish off NOV in final war and release as vassal (but make sure you have fabricated a claim on Sweden before releasing).
Invade and annex Riga.

1464 - onwards

Around 1484 you should have also annexed Novgorod and either Pskov or Ryazan to further reduce diplo relations.
Usually the Golden Horde are the first target to vassalize. They lose provinces to Crimea and can usually vassalize in one war. Make sure to take provinces to fabricate claims on Crimea and Nogai. Then sell them back.
Attack Nogai to drag Crimea in the war (your next target). Return cores to Golden Horde and take enough provinces to vassalize in next war. Vassalize Crimea before the Ottomans discover you (to avoid them joining a coalition).
Then Kazan, then Nogai (or the other way round depending on alliances).

Be patient with Denmark-Sweden. Eventually they will get bogged down in a bad war or Denmark will lose the PU due to bad prestige. Invade to return cores to Finland. End the alliance/marriage with Denmark to further reduce diplo relations.
Be patient with Poland-Lithuania. They always get involved in a bad war. DOW Lithuania and take provinces/release nations. After the end of the war, Poland will be happy to once again become your ally Keep an eye on their prestige.

WESTERNIZE, around 1510. You'll be saving tons of Points (esp. once you've researched Russia's last NI). Now it is so easy, there is no reason why you shouldn't.
For ideas I usually go Expansion (take the first idea for the colonist, then rush to level 7 to open new group, then all other ideas for the CB), then Offensive (or other military idea), then Religion.

Then, the world!

 

[Illianor123]

You don't need to do the take land and sell back to the vassal trick as much anymore because you declare using your vassals's CBs.

 

[Beagá]

I always started with Muscovy and I have grasped most of the game with Muscovy so I am pretty comfortable with it by now. I have all the expansion but with all the new features on, I am getting really rusty (as if I am good in the first place). I never play on ironman and usually disable lucky nations or at least make it random. Any check list for solid strategies as Muscovy? I am still getting used to the new mechanics and how useful vassals are now.

There isn´t a cake recipe. The order at which you do stuff depends on your goal and roleplaying.

All idea groups apart from Naval/Maritime/Trade/Espionage are good choices. Just adapt your playstyle to use them to best effect. For example if you went Defensive then use attrition and scorched earth in wars, if you went Influence make Lithuania release nations you can vassalize by force or diplomacy, and so on. There is no "right" way.

 

[G_Morgan]

The biggest change with 1.8 is the ability to use vassal CBs. You should vassalise a horde and brutally use their CBs to help you expand.

Vassal feeding is a huge strategy as well now with the ability to force provinces to go to your vassals rather than selling them later.

So yeah get horde vassals, abuse CBs, feed, integrate, etc.

 

[Moondrinker]

Something which practically makes expansion westwards a hopeless or at least very costly process is the Lithuanian/Polish (Aristrocratic) idea of Local nobility. It makes coring 100% more expensive! Would have been nice to know. I guess you can circumvent this by creating Vassals like Ukraine and Smolensk, but I haven't tried this yet.

Secure the Iron and Copper provinces near the Urals and the steppes. Copper will quickly rise in price and Iron is a solid product. 1.8 seems to have made Muscovy very wealthy in this respect. Production is a good source of income.

Take Humanism instead of religious ideas first. It makes everything tolerable. I don't have a huge problem with rebel stacks, they pop up from time to time in stacks of 2-3x10-15 and I've conquered most of the Steppes. I like the 1.8 additions a lot.

I made the mistake of sacking Finland and going against Denmark with no navy and that was a grave mistake (around 1490). Finland is very difficult terrain to fight in and the provinces are poor and not wortwhile. Furthermore, occupying enough of Denmark to produce an adequate amount of Warscore to take the Danish holdings in Estonia proved very difficult (even with Poland and a strong Pomenaria as ally).

I seemed to lack diplomats in the beginning of the game, but now they don't have a lot to do. I don't have any possible allies around me to maintain relations with, and I gobbled up Novgorod, Perm, Tver, the Rys etc. within 40 years.

I like to ally with the Orthodox states (if they pop up) down near Crimea and Hellas like Theodoro. Maybe that should be on your agenda.

I did not find Ottomans a huge problem early game so taking an initiative against them or even direct war with them early on might be a good choice. Golden horde+Ottomans and Crimea is a war you can easily win early on, in my experience.

 

[DicRoNero]

Something which practically makes expansion westwards a hopeless or at least very costly process is the Lithuanian/Polish (Aristrocratic) idea of Local nobility. It makes coring 100% more expensive! Would have been nice to know. I guess you can circumvent this by creating Vassals like Ukraine and Smolensk, but I haven't tried this yet.

Haven't they made it so that increased coring cost also affects dip annexation?

Just kill PLC quickly, hordes are so weak that you can take on them anytime. Besides, they become even weaker over time due to lagging in tech. PLC on the other hand...

P.S. Another new Muscovy thread? Given it's usually 2 per day, I foresee another one incoming this evening

 

[nicechinos]

1444-1454
WESTERNIZE, around 1510. You'll be saving tons of Points (esp. once you've researched Russia's last NI). Now it is so easy, there is no reason why you shouldn't.
For ideas I usually go Expansion (take the first idea for the colonist, then rush to level 7 to open new group, then all other ideas for the CB), then Offensive (or other military idea), then Religion.

Then, the world!

What's the point of westernising again?

 

[nicechinos]

Haven't they made it so that increased coring cost also affects dip annexation?

Just kill PLC quickly, hordes are so weak that you can take on them anytime. Besides, they become even weaker over time due to lagging in tech. PLC on the other hand...

P.S. Another new Muscovy thread? Given it's usually 2 per day, I foresee another one incoming this evening

LOL, I can't handle it anymore as well, comrade.

 

[Denkt]

What's the point of westernising again?

Slow you down

 

[nicechinos]

Slow you down

I'll just repost.
Westernisation math:
You lose at least 2800 points (2400 directly, almost 300 from stab hit [you can't avoid as times of troubles is not fun], merchants/advisers resisting westernization will hit at least once ). That's a cost of an idea group. Let's say you are gunning for innovation, which is a """must have" group anyway. It gives you permanent tech discount of 5%, completing it would give 14% discount for admin tech ("for ideas"). So admin tech would be cheaper if you don't westernise. It means that you'll be saving only 30 point per tech (60 in general, 120 if you don't run Western Arms Trade all game, which is easy in case of Muscovy).
The other part is that you have to spend 2800 to get 30 saving per technology. That's 93 technology to breakeven. There are not enough technologies in diplo and milititary for that.
Westernisation is worth only if you are going for WC and hence for protectorates or love trade companies too much to resist the temptation.

P.S. The assumption of the initial post was that you should be running Western Arms Trade (10% cheaper cost; requires alliance and +150 relations) right after you acquire Ingernmanland from Novgorod with Livonians.

 

[Zqrfmb]

Here's the muscovy checklist:

[] Enough Borscht to last you the entire game
[] Manpower of at least 12323952623434609
[] Winter Attrition
[] Low supply limits to keep you from fully utilizing your manpower
[] 5 years to wait out Novgorod's 100% timer
[] A mod to make PA events not average out to 25% per century
[] Religious Ideas