Multiple badboy rankings?

[unmerged(6105)]

Definitely more realistic that way. Although i would base it on region instead of religion. (Portugal would definitely care if the Ottomans increased their presence on the Arab Peninsula)

But perhaps it is too open for exploitation by the player. If there is such a thing as BB wars in EUIII the player culd, with little trouble, knock out each religion in succesion. Instead of having to deal with war on all fronts.

It should be implemented with a possibly hidden "general badboy" that is based upon how much you conquered in general.

 

[Registered]

It should be implemented with a possibly hidden "general badboy" that is based upon how much you conquered in general.

Mummer's idea should do nicely i think. Although it would probably be quite hard to kep it hidden, too many modders here for that.

 

[Galleblære]

Okay, yeah, I see your point. That's actually a pretty good idea, although it would allow a ruler in a relatively weak region to conquer to his heart's content without it effecting his relations with the more powerful nations. Say, for instance, Lithuania preying on the Russian states. It could become a monster of an empire, but still have rosy relations with all the German states and Poland.

Maybe if your badboy for the region reaches a certain point, it will start effecting your other badboys... or maybe, say, every 10 points in one badboy will add 1 to your others?

Sounds good to me, and will limit conquest to an extent, whilst avoiding sillyness like other euro nations going nuts if you conquer a bunch of muslim minors as Russia, Austria etc.

 

[George LeS]

The French were de-facto protestants since they were not part of Team Catholic(Team Habsburg).

Louis XIV would've sent you to the galleys for that post.

 

[EvilSanta]

I think both religion and region should count.That would be the best solution.Or take whole bb concept away and instead base dows on relations.Attacking muslims makes other muslims pissed off but christians wouldnt give a crap.

 

[Brownbeard]

Louis XIV would've sent you to the galleys for that post.

No, he would be too busy backstabbing Austria and the Holy League to prevent them from liberating the Balkans.

 

[unmerged(7415)]

One Badboy... Multiple Quotients

Perhaps we can keep the simplicity of a single badboy rating if we instead divide the badboy number by a factor of concern. The factor of concern would be the sum of the factors of region, religion, and relations for each nation.

Nations far away, those of same creed, or those within the same alliance would thusly be less likely to react to a high badboy number.

Indeed: such a "factor of concern" could even be somewhat more complicated than above, and might also have multiple uses.

 

[Cagliostro]

Also, reconquering rebellions should not add to BB. That's an annoyance that is shared in every Paradox game I know of.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I seem to remember the BB system was introduced in a patch to EU1, since the normal diplomatic relations system wasn't doing it's job properly. I think it would be better to scrap BB and use the relations.

I agree with this. The whole concept of Badboy should be scrapped--it's just a bandaid solution. Instead, diplomatic relations should be modelled properly. Why not just reduce relations on a region-by-region or religion-by-religion basis depending on certain actions by the player's nation? It could be a one-time, lump-sum reduction or a rate of reduction over time (similar to what the current BB system provides). BB just adds complication without adding depth.

 

[George LeS]

Perhaps we can keep the simplicity of a single badboy rating if we instead divide the badboy number by a factor of concern. The factor of concern would be the sum of the factors of region, religion, and relations for each nation.

Nations far away, those of same creed, or those within the same alliance would thusly be less likely to react to a high badboy number.

Indeed: such a "factor of concern" could even be somewhat more complicated than above, and might also have multiple uses.

That wouldn't work, because you can get BB in different ways, & for different actions. If I'm Spain, & DOW & annex Morocco, sure, Austria & the Papal states won't mind a bit; they'd actually applaud me. The Turks would be really PO'd, though. If I then do the same to Portugal, the reactions would be reversed. The 1st deed adds little, if any, BB to my relations with my fellow Catholics, the 2nd enrages them.

The problem with the whole "area of concern" scheme, though, is that you'd end up having innumerable regions to account for; each area of the map would have its own claim to be considered, & only an arbitrary (but necessary) cutoff would prevent separate BB for each nation vis-a-vis each other--like relations.

Religion is more arguable, because it can at least be limited.

 

[Hallsten]

An idea that has been playing in my mind is a that each nation has several badboy rankings, at the minimum two, but preferably three. My idea is that the badboy rankings reflect the difference in tolerance and acceptance of acts.

IE, if a Christian nation conquers and annexes a lot of muslim countries whilst lacking a casus belli, other christian nations woulndt take so much offense to this as muslim nations for instance.

So you have IE three badboy rankings:

"Christian" badboy
"Muslim" badboy
"Misc" badboy (for the rest)

So again, take the Ottomans, the christian nations will take offense if they start annexing their way into europe, and their "christian" BB will skyrocket, giving christian nations a CB etc. At the same time, their standings with the muslims doesn't change that much, since they dont have "access" to the Christian BB that the Ottomans have gained... Should they turn on muslim nations later, the muslim BB will go up..

What do people think? Would it be an improvement, or can other game mechanisms better model this?

Good idea, you have my vote...

 

[Symmetry]

An idea on how to resolve nations treating other nations differently depending on who they conquered and when. Whenever a potentially objectionable event occurs, the initial change in relations between various countries occurs, and also a memory of the event is created that lasts a given amount of time. The memory is applied as a modifier to the natural state of relations between two countries, which their actual relations converge to. Lets say I'm a Protestant Denmark, and France has annexed Hanover my fellow Protestant and ally recently. Our relations had been at 0, but this event shot them all the way down to -200.

Addinally, there are long term effects. Normally Denmark doesn't care that much about France so our relations tend to approach 0 as time goes on. But that annexation creates two history objects within the game. Once could say, "Recently Annexed a Protestant Nation" giving -30 base relations with all protestants for 30 years. Another object could be "Recently Annexed an Ally of Your Country" giving -50 to base relations with the list of nations that were in the alliance with Hanover for 20 years. So Denmark, in the abscence of further provocation, will tend to get more friendly than -200, but will now converge to -80 instead of 0. Maybe throw in other modifiers like "Have Fought a War Recently" or "Have fout

A nice side effect of this is that if England converts from Catholic to Protestant, EUIII can run through all their relations and the objects affecting the relations, so England would now see that France has been mean to protestants, and relations will start to decrease as they should.

 

[unmerged(6105)]

Mummer's idea should do nicely i think. Although it would probably be quite hard to kep it hidden, too many modders here for that.

Hidden from the player. It is still easy to check the save game file...