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nigo

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any improvements for Multiplayer side of the game?

HoI 2 MP is cool but sometimes very hard to play because needs to much "house rules" to prevent exploits

Serious MP bugs that should be fixed:

1) Synch issues

a. Synch issue cause tech loss
b. synch issue causing dissent because of minister change

2) Client not reading host information properly. AI information not properly transfered from host to client, so client has wrong information:

a. Not properly seeing IC, dissent, diplomatic chancse and so on
b. client save does not match host save

3) Military control features:

a. MC does not overide naval AI for minor nations.
b. Minors under military control do not keep their orders upon rehost.

4) Exploits

a.) Reciprocating trade for profit exploit (should be fixed in SP too, but not really important since its not really important since a guy knows he is cheating himself)
 
Last edited:

tedescooo

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Anybody? :p




Sorry by the 'topic resurrection'.
...anyway, it's better then open another thread to the same question. :D
 

Balesir

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Nothing we have done was done specifically to improve the multiplayer game (as far as I know), but several of the things we have done ought to remove potential exploits and make multiplayer easier and/or more engaging. Do you have any specific points you are concerned about?
 

unmerged(49695)

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a multiplayer scenario balanced for mp?
 

unmerged(74599)

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Ok, one very specific improvement to the MP system that could be employed would be to ensure that all values are passed from client to host and back.

1) Sync Issues:

There are some very specific issues that result from MP sync problems that occur, things such as tech loss. This issue arises because the player gets the signal that his tech has finished, and takes the tech team off duty, but the host does not know this has happend. The host reads the tech as being at 99%, while the client believes that it is at 100%.

The effect is that rather than being finished the host thinks the player has cancelled the tech. The tech has to be manually edited in. In the case of Doctrines this is hell because the values for every single unit for that country has to be changed, manually. It is actually easier to edit the save so the doctrine is put back in a tech development slot at 99.99%, so that if fires immediately after the game is restarted making all of the unit changes. This is still a substantial edit. But far better than editing every single unit in the OBB. I am not sure of the best way to account for this in programming terms, but there must be a way.

Similar problems also occur with minister changes. The host does not get the signal that a minister has been changed and so a player might be thinking he has 10% more IC than the host thinks and his total IC is wrong, as far as the host is concerned. When the game is rehosted he has to change the minister again, adding insult to injury because he gets more dissent.

2) AI values

Not all AI switch values are uploaded to the client. The AI switching and all of the AI events happen on the host computer, but not on the client computer. This is normally ok, but does cause some odd effects.

For example, the clients "demand chance" will not be the same as that of the "host" in the case where I change the "claim_acceptance = [X]" of a country using an AI switch until the game is saved and reloaded. In this case the host machine might think that the "demand chance" was 50% but the client would see it as 0%.

That is just one example. There are many values that are not properly communicated between host and client, while the game is ongoing.

This is particularly a problem in the case where the host crashes before taking a recent save, and the players are forced to use a client save. Lets be real, it does happen, one in 20 games or so at least once, and this can totally ruin a game that people have sweated over for hours, if not days, because all the specific values for diplomatic functions have been replaced by default values in the client's emergency save.

This can lead to wild results such as Siam declaring war on Japan, or China suddenly deciding to ally Japan and so on.

If those two things could be fixed by having the client and host properly communicate all the values to each other on a regular basis, many hours of editing could be avoided and entire games saved from the dustbin. Getting the client and host to communicate everything between each other would be the single biggest improvement to the MP gaming function of the game that you could possibly make at the level of the game engine.


3) Reciprocal Trading for Profit Exploit:


A player makes a trade for 10 supplies with country A, using 20 of resource X, he then buys back resource 20 X in a second trade for 5 supplies to the same country. He makes a third and fourth trade doing the same thing, increasing his profit margin each time. This goes on basically until country A is bankrupt. I think this could be simply dealt with by automatically consolidating all trades between countries into one trade. That would decrease some trade flexibility but kill the exploit, which is rather nasty all around.
 
Last edited:

nigo

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Do you have any specific points you are concerned about?



some mods increase the price for garantee independence for prevent some kind of exploit.

example: with a high value price, a USA human player cannot garantee ind. of all world. With that the human player cannot gain easy intervencionst points on sliders...


and such things like that


see MEM, HSR and EiR mods for more examples....


Cueball can give more examples on Multiplayer aspect of the game...
 

tedescooo

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Oh yeah.

There's the 'crazy AI' on changing of host. :rofl:
 

Alex_brunius

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I think fixing those sync issues should be a high priority. Most paradox fans I know enjoy playing HoI2 in LAN still. And I haven't played a single game where no one suffered from a tech not being registered by the host. Dissent values of 40%+ are registered by the host but seen as 0% on the client side is also common due to some IC related sync issues.
 

unmerged(74599)

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After the synch issues, I would say that the Military Control feature not overiding the Naval AI is the next biggest issue.

So here is a short list:

Serious MP bugs that should be fixed:

1) Synch issues

a. Synch issue cause tech loss
b. synch issue causing dissent because of minister change

2) Client not reading host information properly. AI information not properly transfered from host to client, so client has wrong information:

a. Not properly seeing IC, dissent, diplomatic chancse and so on
b. client save does not match host save

3) Military control features:

a. MC does not overide naval AI for minor nations.
b. Minors under military control do not keep their orders upon rehost.

4) Exploits

a.) Reciprocating trade for profit exploit (should be fixed in SP too, but not really important since its not really important since a guy knows he is cheating himself)

Perhaps Nigo could post that to the OP.
 
Last edited:

Lennartos

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I have done a lot of bugfixing (also spend a ~2 weeks looking just on how to improve communication) before we started to implement new features.
There has been done A LOT.

Of course i cannot guarantee anything (there might still be a bug hidden somewhere), but the truth is:
Since the beta started i havent heard of any MP sync issues.

For those still playing HOI2:
DO NOT CHANGE SLIDERS MANUALLY BETWEEN DAY SWITCHES! - IF YOU ARE A SLOW POKE OR YOU ARE PLAYING ON HIGH SPEED, PAUSE!
AFTER CHANGE SWITCH SCREENS FOR IT TO BE SAVED - THAT MEANS BEFORE 24:00
This is by far the biggest cause of HOI2 related sync issues!

The HOI2 beta patch project has recieved the information a long time ago - and i think they should have implemented a solution for the 1.3 final , if they do not already have done so.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(74599)

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For those still playing HOI2:
DO NOT CHANGE SLIDERS MANUALLY BETWEEN DAY SWITCHES! - IF YOU ARE A SLOW POKE OR YOU ARE PLAYING ON HIGH SPEED, PAUSE!
AFTER CHANGE SWITCH SCREENS FOR IT TO BE SAVED - THAT MEANS BEFORE 24:00
This is by far the biggest cause of HOI2 related sync issues!

The HOI2 beta patch project has recieved the information a long time ago - and i think they should have implemented a solution for the 1.3 final , if they do not already have done so.

The biggest cause of HOI2 related sync issues is improper communication of data from host to client, and back, not players forgetting to accommodate lag and improper host/client data transfer.

It has not and will not be fixed in 1.3beta2 unless something has changed that I don't know about.

It's great that you have spent some time looking at these issues, and it is even better news that you have no reported sync issues to date.:cool:
 
Last edited: