Mughals game

[DSwann]

Blocking Russia as the Mughals, I gotta try that now Is it difficult?

shouldn't be. It depends on Nogai and Chagati behavior. In my case Chagati was rather aggressive and ate much of Nogai. Once Nogai was small enough it was just a matter of vassal and return cores. I could have been more aggressive and pushed North faster but the provinces are not that rich and wanted to focus on India first.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Blocking Russia as the Mughals, I gotta try that now Is it difficult?

Easy if you do it quickly. Just block with colonies.

Nogai and Chagati shouldn't be relevant. Just go through the Uzbeks. I cut them down enough to vassalize them, then diplo annexed as soon as I could, and that was plenty fast enough. Conquer and core would likely be faster but I like saving the admin points.

Edit - oh, my bad. Not on the conclusion, but I forgot exactly how I did it. I actually released & fed Khazak, then diplo annexed them. Though I needed to take on province north of Khazah to get adjacency to the colonizable provinces.

Three provinces of the Uzbeks are actually still hanging around in my game, bypassed by a corridor of Mughals.

Note that I found the Uzbeks a slight PITA early, though mainly because I am not great at exploiting lousy combat AI. Best to fight them on your own territory if you can.

 

[Dakilla TM]

Easy if you do it quickly. Just block with colonies.

Nogai and Chagati shouldn't be relevant. Just go through the Uzbeks. I cut them down enough to vassalize them, then diplo annexed as soon as I could, and that was plenty fast enough. Conquer and core would likely be faster but I like saving the admin points.

Pretty much that means the rest of Asia is ALL MINE! HUAHAHAHAHA

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Pretty much that means the rest of Asia is ALL MINE! HUAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, pretty much. The only limit to your ability to take all of Asia is, initially, DR slots, and, once you westernize, coring cost/time. Ideally you should be doing very little self coring though - none in China and very little in India. You defintiely want expansion for a lot of reasons, but one of them is the 2 DR slots. Diplomacy eventually also, but I didn't take it till 5th because of other priorities.

In my game, as I said I westernized a little early, which is slowing down finishing Asia (I already have almost all of it). But I've protectorated most of the rest; they'll eventually westernize and I'll vassalize then.

Been working on the Ottomans in the early 1600s. Beating them but trashing my manpower. Releasing and feeding Syria and the Mamlukes means very little coring at first. But most of the Anationalian, Greek and Balkan cores are long gone, so finishing them up is going to be time consuming. Russia the same - haven't even started on them left.

Interestingly, Russia left me alone completely despite a long border. Lucky perhaps, but I think the ai aggressive behavior is driven by either weakness or missions. I'm stronger than Russia, and most of their eastern oriented missions don't target me (they target either the more nearby hordes or colonization which is blocked). A long winded way of saying that, if you block them, I think they will leave you alone.

 

[DSwann]

Note that I found the Uzbeks a slight PITA early, though mainly because I am not great at exploiting lousy combat AI. Best to fight them on your own territory if you can.

Yeah but after a while once you start gaining multiple vassals in India and or release a huge Persia, it is easy enough to just help them out destroy the enemy's main army and than let them siege

 

[BootOnFace]

Ottomans are killer beasts. One guy showed that the Ottoman bonuses to manpower, morale, unit power, and discipline can allow them to beat Prussia or Sweden man-for-man. And that's without 300% manpower recovery... Your only hope to beat them is to try to outnumber them 2-1 in every battle. Westernizing can be a huge help, but if you westernize too soon then you'll be stuck with crappy units. Don't westernize until land 14 or whatever gets you Tercios.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Ottomans are killer beasts. One guy showed that the Ottoman bonuses to manpower, morale, unit power, and discipline can allow them to beat Prussia or Sweden man-for-man. And that's without 300% manpower recovery... Your only hope to beat them is to try to outnumber them 2-1 in every battle. Westernizing can be a huge help, but if you westernize too soon then you'll be stuck with crappy units. Don't westernize until land 14 or whatever gets you Tercios.

Tercios are tech 12. They are exactly 1 pip stronger than what the Indian units get at tech 12. Westernize when you're done conquering east, or at least when you've vassaled anything you care to vassal.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Ottomans are killer beasts. One guy showed that the Ottoman bonuses to manpower, morale, unit power, and discipline can allow them to beat Prussia or Sweden man-for-man. And that's without 300% manpower recovery... Your only hope to beat them is to try to outnumber them 2-1 in every battle. Westernizing can be a huge help, but if you westernize too soon then you'll be stuck with crappy units. Don't westernize until land 14 or whatever gets you Tercios.

Yeah, they are tough.

In my Mughals game, as detailed somewhat in a prior thread, I managed to avoid fighting them until about 1580, despite a common border. Some combination of luck and relative strength. They attacked me then and I had no hope - peaced them out for money.

Then I prematurely westernized - this around military tech 14 or 15 - and have now beaten them in 4 wars. The wars are getting progressively easier, though they are still tough. I don't need numerical advantages to beat them, at least fighting defensively, but take enormous casualties - which is why (recovering manpower) I've only been able to fight 4 wars against them and it's now around 1630.

My dilemma now is that further expansion into Anationalia is going to be brutal in terms of coring cost/time, as almost all of the non Ottoman cores are long gone (ai Ottomans tend to culture convert, which means even the non-expiring cores are gone). Options are Russia - though seeing how they trashed the Ottomans even with a numerical disadvantage makes me think that I am not ready for that - or, more likely, North Africa. I'm lucky there - Mameluke vassal, cheap Tripoli cores (owned still by the Ottomans), and Tunisia of all nations has blogged to wipe out Algeria and Morocco. I am pretty sure all of their cores remain, so I can play the release and feed game big time. AND since the Tunisians don't have Berber tradition, the little coring that I have to do should be fairly cheap.

One interesting thing in my game is that Russia, deprived of Siberia, didn't expand much during the 16th century. Finally they started expanding again around 1600, and have absorbed much of the horde lands to their south and my west. They even took some provinces in the Caucus, interfering a little with my expansion plans in that direction.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Tercios are tech 12. They are exactly 1 pip stronger than what the Indian units get at tech 12. Westernize when you're done conquering east, or at least when you've vassaled anything you care to vassal.

Let me make it clear that I'm not disagreeing with this, even though I westernized early and it worked out. However, a couple of points:

(1) I had most of what I wanted from Asia anyway, so the cost wasn't that high.
(2) While not a sufficient reason to westernize early, let's not forget the reduced tech costs - I've been able to catch up to the Ottomans in military tech (I was three behind) while filling out 5/7 defensive ideas (so far). I could not have done that without westernizing.

At the very minimum, you need to wait until you have all of India and China.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah, once you have India/China + SEA there's nothing left really. At that point Westernization is a great option.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Yeah, once you have India/China + SEA there's nothing left really. At that point Westernization is a great option.

My only regret is not having ALL of SE Asia - though I've gotten more of it after - as Vientiane westernized. I also have Ayutthaya and pieces of Pegu.