Mughals game

[unmerged(177849)]

It's around 1560 or so and my Mughals game is going well. Almost too well - rolling over the few remaining Asian nation, and thinking about westernizing, but getting bored.

Until the Ottomans strike. We had been living peacefully despite a significant mutual border, but they got the Mesopotamia mission and that was that.

I manage, in the first war, to peace out by giving some gold. But, going forward, they have the following advantages: (a) somewhat larger army, (b) about 4 tech levels military, and (c) a military idea group - I forget which one - versus none for me. Also Ottoman versus Indian tech group, but that's not a significant difference at this stage.

On the one hand, finally a challenge. Yay. But maybe too much of one? I could westernize, but we're still talking decades before I am even at parity with them. Human versus computer is obviously a big edge, but can any one come up with any other ideas for taking them on? For perspective here, to win a battle I need something like a 4 to 1 advantage in men.

 

[Pilot00]

Post a map and some statistics plz: Manpower, income, current armies etc

 

[MadDjinn]

Hang out in Persia and hope for the mountain bonuses on defense.

If you're far enough along in the tech tree, the diplo buildings will get faster movement, so get a few of those in the area you will fight in and that will allow you to reinforce faster than them.

Otherwise, get big allies and just wait until they're in a war with someone else to take your revenge. Once you start hurting them, you should be able to keep hitting them over and over before they can rebuild.

Just beware the later military techs. At tech 19 and above, there are .5 tactics increases. Don't engage if they have it and you don't.

 

[lordelenath]

I'd just keep paying them off and westernize. But yeah, that's just me - I don't like to make things harder just because. ;-)

 

[unmerged(177849)]

I'd just keep paying them off and westernize. But yeah, that's just me - I don't like to make things harder just because. ;-)

Not sure I can afford that over the long haul - took me 2000 ducats even with a plus 15 WS the first time.

That aside, a few more details:

It's a little later than I remembered (1581). Army sizes both around 150 K, but my force limit is higher (171 versus 129). But they have mil tech 15 versus 12. I do have most of Asia, owned or vassaled, except for: a huge chunk of mostly worthless horde land in central Asia, about 3/4 of SE Asia, a blobbing Korea, a tiny remnant of Ming (the rest of China is three vassals) and Japan. No likely allies; Muscovy would be okay, but my negative feelings of them are so high as to make that prohibitive (hate that "feature").

I just annexed two provinces - a mistake in retrospect - so unless I release them (and am already over my DR limit) I can't westernize for about 9 years.

Looks like it's going to be a rough road if I keep playing.

 

[jonman122]

The Ottomans tech pretty much dies for infantry and cavalry at level 12 like every other non-western tech group. Still good cannons though.

I'd westernize and hope you don't get too many rebels

 

[unmerged(177849)]

The Ottomans tech pretty much dies for infantry and cavalry at level 12 like every other non-western tech group. Still good cannons though.

I'd westernize and hope you don't get too many rebels

Yeah, pretty much. I am really going back and forth about whether I should release the recently added provinces to start (now) seven years sooner, as I am ain pretty good shape otherwise to start westernizing now. It's probably stubbornness only stopping me from doing so; the fact that I am over the DR limit stinks, but that is the only reason not to do it, and 7 years earlier westernization is worth it. I should have to deal with only one war with Ottomans while westernizing, and can buy them off. And I have a - revolt risk advisor.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

1591 and successfully westernized. Ironically the Ottomans left me alone during that time.

Now ... not sure where to go next. Still two over the DR limit, though I'm ready to start annexing vassals again. Current monarch (and the next, as I recall ) is not good for diplo or military, so that will handicap me a little. Of course I can't vassalize in Asia any more, except for Hordes. Aside from releasing & feeding Manchu, and taking the last Ming province for my vassal, I guess I'm done in Asia for a while. Catch up on tech to Ottomans and start on them, and/or maybe the Russians. May take a while, though, even westernized.

I would play my Portugal iron man, except the connectivity/slow save problem with iron man that started with the 1.4 patch seems not to have been fixed (yeah, I know it doesn't effect everyone. It effects many of us, and isn't a computer/internet connection issue).

 

[unmerged(177849)]

Not to beat a dead horse (not beaten in this thread, but beaten in others), but the combination of not having diplo idea groups (thus somewhat limiting my ability to play the vassal game) and 10 year coring time even for Mughals, makes the game feel slow once you get past a certain point. Add in the fact that westernization means that (hordes aside) I can't vassalize Asian nations, and I feel like the fun has sort of gone out of this play through. Basically just twiddling my thumbs until I feel that I can take on the Ottomans.

 

[Saintlukas]

should have stayed Indian tech IMO and continued expansion, some pure focus into military ideas/tech and some clever terrain usage/army composition would have kept the ottobro at bay long enough

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah that's why I have constantly said that early westernization sucks in Asia 1.4 and after. Even with only 2 diplomats + 4 relations slots vassal feeding can overtake coring pretty easily; add a diplomat from embassy, diplomatic ideas, and maybe even aristocratic if you don't care about actual military quality and it's easily faster...hell if you gouge diprep it's faster to annex someone than core a province, straight up, once you're big.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

should have stayed Indian tech IMO and continued expansion, some pure focus into military ideas/tech and some clever terrain usage/army composition would have kept the ottobro at bay long enough

Yeah, I thought about that and maybe I should have. But a clogged vassal pipeline (had to stop annexing for a few years to clear out malus from prior annexations) made that an only marginally appealing option anyway - especially since the remaining Asian nations are/were individually mostly either small or poor or a PITA to vassalize or some combination thereof.

I also didn't realize that I was going to have a long respite from the Ottomans - they failed or cancelled their Mesopotamia mission and now are headed west again (first Bosnia, now a huge Tunisia which ate Algeria and Morocco).

I guess while I'm catching up to the Ottomans I can finish eating Oman and, as I said, release and feed Manchu.

 

[aragonFTW]

Just sell them the provinces when you see they have the mission. It's not like you can't replace them from India or the steppes.

 

[unmerged(177849)]

One more question. Idea group 4, after expansion, exploration, religion. Military groups out because I need to catch up in military tech. Admin group maybe, as with my current & next monarch I have a surplus. But only admin appeals given my current circumstances, and it's a one trick pony.

Leaving the diplomacy idea group, which should come in handy even though I westernized. My diplo points are scarce, and diplo tech still stuck at 6, but I think I need to take diplo. Thoughts?

 

[Saintlukas]

offensive or defensive

defensive for that great morale boost

offensive for forced march

both are vastly useful for an large asian empire

even though your low military tech you can always wait till you get full -25% neighbor bonus

 

[Golladan]

Innovative is also available...

 

[Lwantssugar]

The ottomans are scripted rivals of the Timurids, there's nothing you can do about that. However when playing as them I always like to have Iraq as a permanent vassal, their lands are surprisingly wealthy as late game they can finance a 20 stack even with half their income going to you so they aren't that bad in a war against weaker or equal enemies, so as long as you keep a friendly state between you and the ottomans your wars with them should be infrequent. Unfortunately Hedjaz is about the only power who is willing to be your ally, as everything west of the Tigris and and Euphrates rivers hates you with a burning passion

 

[Dakilla TM]

Post a map with some stats as well please? You can hold em off if you camp in mountains or force them to attack you with river crossings. Make sure you always outnumber them, and I even if you're losing money, by this point you should have so much that it won't matter. Are you Shiite as well? When I plays as Timurids->Mughals, I always switch to Shiite, and its better than Sunni.

Or you can try to westernize...

 

[DSwann]

Post a map and some statistics plz: Manpower, income, current armies etc

Don't mean to hijack the thread but here is my Mughals game in 1551:







I have vassal fed/ate pretty much all I can in India so I have just started to eat Vijayanagar's costal provinces and coring them myself. I finally think I can block Russia from anymore of Siberia, probably a little too far east than I wanted and I don't like sharing a border with them but not much I can do..

Need to integrate Persia back into the fold and continue pushing East..

 

[Dakilla TM]

Don't mean to hijack the thread but here is my Mughals game in 1551:

View attachment 102908

View attachment 102909

View attachment 102910

I have vassal fed/ate pretty much all I can in India so I have just started to eat Vijayanagar's costal provinces and coring them myself. I finally think I can block Russia from anymore of Siberia, probably a little too far east than I wanted and I don't like sharing a border with them but not much I can do..

Need to integrate Persia back into the fold and continue pushing East..

Blocking Russia as the Mughals, I gotta try that now Is it difficult?