mr. lifford's wed night MP game AAR thread

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Many nations came to your aid, or at least tried...

England, Spain, Russia and Sweden all joined World War 1 in an attempt to prevent the partitioning of Austria. Also many nations gave financial aid afterwards I believe, though I'm not sure exactly which ones or how much.

Unfortunately the aid wasn't enough, but since the Ottoman Empire alone is probably strong enough to defeat Austria in the early stages it was pretty hard to stop that multi-power juggernaut.

Actually according to the ledger Austria's inflation isn't that much higher than Poland's I think. Hard to tell from the graphs, but it looks like Poland's is about 2/3 of Austria's.

All this is supposed to be encouragement that I don't think Austria is finished yet, not debate or criticism. Personally I would rather play a nation in the middle of Europe with good leaders than a true minor (even if it had less inflation and/or more provinces). The Ottoman Empire is pretty clearly a menace, so I would think that some of the courts of Europe might be receptive to your diplomats and might aid you to recover some provinces. Unfortunately I would avoid Steimark (or however you spell that) since the gold inflation would kill you. Certainly getting better relations with the electors of the HRE would be my top priority. If it wasn't for trying to maintain relations with the HRE, the Hessian province is obviously very vulnerable and will likely revolt away ifyou don't capture it.

Yours with sympathy, the Netherlands.

 

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Sweden

i can't make it on Tuesday. i can only play on wednesdays and Thursdays, and the occasional weekend. No one asked me or i would have said.

The next session is important, so i would prefer that Sweden not be played as AI. i also would rather not have a sub "screwing up Sweden"(or playing it better than me), i want to screw it up on my own.

if you must go on for Tuesday without me, please have manitou talk to Elijah about my preferences and desires. in any event, I will be there on Wednesday to regain my realm.

Tom/TAF, Foreign Minister of Sweden, Peasant First Class

 

[Count Drew]

I actually like Minors, or Mini-Nations Netherlands. My First choice for this game was Poland<which is big by territory but that's it>, but of course TPC was very adamant having that one. Fact is OE isn't the perp here, I wanted War with him but not War with Poland/France/Bradenburg while at War with him. Being the Holy Roman Electorate is nice but SHEESH?? You would think they'd punish other nations of the same religion going at War with a Nation against an entirely foreign Religion. Especially Sunni Muslim of the 16th century<should be a raise in revolt risk due to religious ferver>! I swear Ahistorical, though I suppose this Multi-player for ya I love the human aspect, the unpreditability as we all choose this.

I'll keep playing her, though if I get eaten by OE, my ending gift will be 20k Austrian Soldats on Holland breaking my Vassazliation How do ya like them apples

 

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Hey! I've always tried to be a moderating influence here! No need to threaten the peaceful Dutch with some hypothetical dying breath

You know, I would actually like to see some sort of rule requiring that you have above a certain level of relations in order to have an alliance. That wouldn't tie player hands too much since they could always give gifts to get their relations up, but it would help prevent some of the ahistorical alliances. Still, the French were known for being very pragmatic in their alliances historically.

About tonight, are we playing or not? I went to some effort to make myself available today, but I can very much sympathize with TAF's point of view. Nobody asked him, and I prefer not to play with subs if they can possibly avoided (not that it affects me, I don't have much in the way of relations with Sweden other than chatting with their merchants now and again ).

Perhaps we could start a new game? Restart the Sunday game? I would like to play on Tuesdays, particularly this one.

 

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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior


... I wonder which conditions you find unreasonable? Not that it matters, France and England have declared the treaty void, when it was realized you would not consent to fair terms for admission to the Channel Coalition.

Yours,
Regent Kleves, Minister of Foreign Affairs, on Behalf of the King of France

I suspect it was the vassalship and the "will not declare war without consulting France".

Giving up the Swedish cores is rather nasty too, but that is a much more reasonable term.

 

[Count Drew]

Having a full boat with no E-mail even is a bit scant, we may be short a few players? Especially the vitals????

 

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Originally posted by Count Drew
Having a full boat with no E-mail even is a bit scant, we may be short a few players? Especially the vitals????

The players I've heard indirectly that will be there are (may not be totally accurate, I wasn't doing the planning for this):

you maybe? (Drew)
Dave,
Elijah,
Kleves,
TPC,
me,
Shigure.

It's a decent amount, but missing the Northern 3 (Russia, Sweden and Denmark) and Portugal. I don't know if they know about the night or not, other than TAF who can't make it.

 

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IIRC Calanctus can make it too.

 

[Count Drew]

I'm game Satan, but we'll have 3 very unhappy campers when they come back without subs at least...

 

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Originally posted by Count Drew
I'm game Satan, but we'll have 3 very unhappy campers when they come back without subs at least...

Hey, don't make me part of this

I will play if we go ahead, but my vote is for holding off until others can make it, or at least until we are sure they know about it!

 

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Originally posted by satan
I suspect it was the vassalship and the "will not declare war without consulting France".

Giving up the Swedish cores is rather nasty too, but that is a much more reasonable term.

Actually, he did not object at all to vassalship, and Poland was the one who proposed it. Is it not common to inform allies before going to war? He never told Poland his war plans before executing them, which hurt Poland, so I thought I might include it as a term, just to be safe. The cores were very reasonable, but he did not want to give anything to anyone besides England.

He has made his decision.

Yours,
Regent Kleves, Minister of Foreign Affairs, on Behalf of the King of France

 

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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Actually, he did not object at all to vassalship, and Poland was the one who proposed it. Is it not common to inform allies before going to war? He never told Poland his war plans before executing them, which hurt Poland, so I thought I might include it as a term, just to be safe. The cores were very reasonable, but he did not want to give anything to anyone besides England.

He has made his decision.

Yours,
Regent Kleves, Minister of Foreign Affairs, on Behalf of the King of France

Inform yes, be constrained by their decisions, especially if you don't call them? No.

Maybe it was just the phrasing of the terms, but it sounded to me like France wanted veto rights over Danish expansion. Even if France effectively had such a veto, putting it in the treaty seemed harsh.

Just my thoughts as a neutral observer, I may have misunderstood the intent.

 

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Originally posted by Count Drew
My First choice for this game was Poland<which is big by territory but that's it>, but of course TPC was very adamant having that one.

just for the record: i was a sub in the second session ... when you, unfortunately, were away ... i was not the first player for poland. i took over in the second session &, thankfully, was allowed to stay on.

 

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The Sultan has noticed some comments in the correspondance that mentions the threat of The Empire

The Sultan wishes to point out to the Monarchs of Europe that The Ottoman Empire has merely been attempting to expand to it's core potential.

The Sultan has been very restrained in his aquisition of non-core territory. The Nubian lands occured when the Sultan was away on important "harem business".

Our war with Russia was only to aid our Polish friends in gaining back Polish territory. Even with a high war score The Empire did not seek any territory or tribute from Russia.

The Ottoman threat to Europe is much overstated. Our interests lay in the East. Perhaps the Emperor of the Austrians should contact The Porte for some tete-tete discussions on his current situation. Tea and some tasty cookies are awaiting his arrival

The Most Peaceful Sultan

 

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Re: Sweden

Originally posted by TAF
i can't make it on Tuesday. i can only play on wednesdays and Thursdays, and the occasional weekend. No one asked me or i would have said.

The next session is important, so i would prefer that Sweden not be played as AI. i also would rather not have a sub "screwing up Sweden"(or playing it better than me), i want to screw it up on my own.

if you must go on for Tuesday without me, please have manitou talk to Elijah about my preferences and desires. in any event, I will be there on Wednesday to regain my realm.

Tom/TAF, Foreign Minister of Sweden, Peasant First Class

FYI, we held off playing. I think the vote went something like 2/3 to wait, though we were all keen to play.

We were also missing Bill (Portugal).

Anyway, just letting you know that nothing has changed in the game.

Edit - fixed a typo.

 

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poland: 1552 - 9 & 1559 - 77

To the Court of Nations here assembled:

I, the Marquis T. P. Corksky, have been commanded by His Majesty, the King of Poland, to make public the Polish sense of events for the periods 1552 - 1559 and 1559 - 1577.

1552 - 1559:

Due to the radical reshuffling of cabinets of nearby powers, the Foreign Ministry found itself unequal to the test of time during this period. The exact sequence of events has been muddied by the passage of time, but, in sum, war broke out between Austria and the Ottoman Empire and France. This brought the Spanish and England into the conflict, on the side of the Austrians. After some time passed, & in part response to the urging of Foreign Minister Kleves of France, the Foreign Ministry of Poland decided to enter the conflict on the side of the OOA. This was a disastrous decision on our part. As it stood, the energetic minister of Brandenberg mysteriously disappeared and a new and very capable minister rose to the rank of power in Sweden. Despite desperate attempts to gain Swedish friendship by our ambassador in Stockholm, the Swedes refused, preferring to throw their lot in with the Tsar. Their decision was privately justified by an interest in "balance" -- although the Poles found this to be a strange justification given the rising tide of Russian power, the minds of the Swedes were made up, and there was little we could do about it. So, to recap, although the geopolitical situation had therefore changed radically, and the treaty Poland was party to was merely a defensive pact, we rashly decided to enter the war on the side of the French-Ottoman Axis. Although some gains were made in central and northern Europe by the Northern Alliance, the situation soon became grave when the Russians, with their Swedish ally in tow, entered the war on the side of the Spanish and English Houses in order to try and save Austria. War was declared on Lithuania and Poland, seeing no other option, declared war on Russia, thus entering a war on two fronts. With troops committed in central Europe, there was little to do for some time but watch as Russia conquered territory after territory of our Lithuanian cousins. We begged our Ottoman and French allies to abide by the terms of our treaty, but they both declined, saying that it was inconvenient for them. By the time peace had been struck with Austria it was too late, Russia had settled the question with our Lithuanian friends taking 6 or 7 provinces from them. There was much gnashing of teeth in Krakow. Verily, the King was displeased. Cake rations were reduced and anger in erupted in the streets. As the coup de grace, Denmark at this time decided to declare war on France giving Poland the choice of either declaring on an erstwhile ally or taking another hit to internal stability. We chose the latter. As a result, Poland left the alliance it had spent so much time cultivating, and found itself alone, without friends, surrounded by hostile powers. In short order, I was demoted and thrown into the gaol. Sitting miserably in my cell I could hear the cries of the disaffected from the streets below, "There's no cake in Poland! What can the cakeless do?"

1559 - 1577:

Perhaps in recognition of previous services rendered to the King, perhaps because many diplomats in Europe felt more comfortable dealing with a familiar presence, the King came to see me in my torment to discuss the overall situation. I thank the angels looking over me that somehow, during this conversation, I was able to redeem myself, persuade the King to relent, and be reinstated. The situation had changed radically again, a new state had arisen in the Low Lands and the minister in Stockholm accepted the offer of employment there. A new minister of experience entered the service of the Swedish Court. The situation of the Danes was extremely precarious, there were territorial disputes between that Kingdom and the Swedes, the Swedes were aligned with the increasingly awesome Tsar, he was not in charge of his coalition, he had alienated the King of France who felt that he had been personally betrayed, and all of his allies had entered into periods of decline due to unenergetic leadership. The King of Poland, desperate for allies, invited the Austrian into a formal alliance so that he might fight off the predators that had taken to the further dismantling of the Habsburg House, but, probably due to understandable bad feelings, the offer was rejected. Then, rather predictably, the Swedes decided that the Danish position of weakness was too tempting to resist and declared war on Denmark. This brought Russia into conflict with Lithuania yet again and there was nothing for it but to declare war on the Tsar yet again. However, the Sultan, no longer preoccupied with the war in France, decided to come to the aid of his long-term ally Poland and joined the war against Russia. For this the King of Poland was very grateful. As it turned out, the war went quite well for the Polish and Ottoman forces -- especially considering that in the middle of it, Lithuania decided to formally become a part of Poland -- and the Russians were forced to come to terms, returning most of Lithuania's lands to the protection of the Polish crown. Denmark, however, did not fare as well, and, despite a valiant fight, was forced to cede territory to the avaricious Swedes. There followed a period of peace, which, unhappily, included many rather unwelcome events in Poland, including a forced bankruptcy which radically changed the administration of the Kingdom brought on by conflict with the nobles. Considerable effort was expended to teaching our Lithuanian brothers and some strange Protestants, the joys of cooking Krakow Cake. We moved our capital to Warsaw. Furious negotiations between many of the diplomats of Europe commenced. Although the King is still displeased with me, he has ended cake rationing and there was much rejoicing in the streets.

Yours faithfully,

The Marquis T.P. Corksky, Minister Extraordinary & Plenipotentiary
for His Majesty, the King of Poland

 

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Screencaps!

Europe, January 1607

North America, January 1607

India, January 1607

 

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England, 1577 - 1607

Or; An Exciting Tale of Determination, Deceit, Deception, Devotion, Defenestration, Decapitation, and Devil-food Cake. Part the Fifth.

With the Treaty of London, the West, for once, turned to peace. The power blocs were as follows: The Channel Coalition (CC), made of England, France, and the Netherlands; the Cake and Cookie Coalition Pact (CCCP), made of Denmark, Poland, and the Ottoman Empire; and the North-east European Treaty Organisation (NEETO); Spain; and Austria, who owed much of her continued existence to the Ottomans.

However, though the Western situation had calmed, the Eastern situation had not. In 1584, the CCCP declared war on NEETO.

Desperately outnumbered, NEETO cried for help. Within months, Spain led the way, declaring war on the Ottoman Empire. Soon thereafter, the Netherlands declared war on Poland, bringing the CC into the war. Austria, seeing their chance to avenge their partitioning in the first war, also declared war on the CCCP. The Second World War had begun.

Though every major country had a part in this war, it was nowhere near so violent, or so influential, as the first war. By 1587, the CCCP, declared status quo peace with Russia. By 1589, Denmark was forced to cede Bremen to the Netherlands, ending CC's role in the war. By 1593, after a strange interlude between Austria and the CCCP which is still not entirely understood by England, World War 2 ended. Poland's gambit for invading and crippling Russia had failed, but with the exception of Denmark, who lost half of Norway to Sweden and Bremen to the Netherlands, no territory was exchanged.

During this golden age for England, colonisation and exploration proceeded swiftly. Colonies were founded as far away as Australia and Tahiti, and North America waxed ever more populated. Two wars were fought with Oman -- the first intended to lay claim to Zanzibar, but which unfortunately led to the fall of the Omani government and the unwanted acquisition of southern Arabia -- and the second which was intended to take Muscate itself. However, the Turk became rather enraged at the idea of an English Muscate, and rather than risk a war with the Turk, we backed down and instead vassalised them.

Then, one of the greater mistakes in English history occured. Was it the work of a traitor, or a bureaucratic mishap, which led to the acquisition of English maps by the French? In any case, the deed had been done. By this point the English maps were quite substantial indeed, and to lose them to even an ally was catastrophic.

These maps were then passed around among the various nations of Europe. A few countries, unusually enough, asked for military access from England. Unsuspecting and easy-going, England granted it.

It is truly strange to see Austrians, Danes, and French walking through English North America, beating on Indians, but this is what happened. England, having recently spent much stability embargoing many of the Indians one by one, gladly let the other nations annex those tribes who have not yet fallen under the English embargo. The New World was truly a hectic place to be.

The other interesting squabble came when Gujarat, owned by the distant Chagatai since before English explorers arrived in the area, declared independence. Without time to react, both England and the Netherlands declared war on it almost immediately, both desiring the Kutch Center of Trade.

The Dutch arrived first, and laid siege. However, English troops soon arrived under the banner of Field Marshal Alden, who took control of the siege. After much heated discussion with the Dutch, the English agreed to leave Kutch for the Netherlands, in exchange for Dutch promises for not sending merchants to English centers of trade.

As Manhattan grows ever more rich, and England gains more and more control over it, the English treasury swells with money, and English influence on the world grows ever more stronger. These are truly good times in London.

 

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France 1577-1607

Humbled
France was disgraced, defeated, and dishonored. England and Spain's suprise invasion was threatning to tear the country apart. Only 30,000 French troops remained. It looked as if France was to be destroyed. When the Treaty of London was offered, we glady accpeted. France was still far from saved. With her economy in shambles, and the army weakened, France could barely hope to defend herself. Rebels still presented a problem, and it took the entire French army to put down revolts. We regained French colonies from England, which helped, and gained England as an ally, which helped more.

End of the Wars of Religion

Then France was saved. Henry IV rose to power, and restored order. The economy quickly rebounded, and France begen rebuilding. Colonization efforts were also increased, and France gained more land.

World War Two

In 1854, the Central Powers (CP) of Poland, the Ottoman Empire, and Denmark declared war upon the North-Eastern European Treaty Organization (NEETO), consisting of Russia and Sweden. NEETO had been easily defeated by the CP before. This was not a war of conquest, it was a war of destruction. Spain responded quickly, declaring war on the Ottoman Empire. As over 150,000 CP troops poured into Russia, the Channel Coalition (CC) debated what to do. With the Netherlands pressing for intervention, and the English saying they would honor the alliance, France was in a tough position. France, being a close friend of both Poland and the Ottoman Empire, was less than excited about the prospect of going to war. Russia seemed on the verge of collapse anyway, what good would going to war do?

The Turning Point

As hundred of thousands of CP troops rolled across Russia, the situation seemed hopeless. Russia was not ready to give in. A massive Russian counter-attack threw the Poles back from Moscow. Although the Russians were caught off guard, fighting against superior forces, and losing tens of thousands of soldiers, Russia still fought on. This strengthened western resolve. The Netherlands still pressed for intervention. England still promised to go to war, if that is what the alliance decided. The King of France was asked what to do, he replied with one word: "Mobolize."

The Mobolization of France

The French economy was rebuilt. The same could not be said for the army. The entire French army consisted of 35,000 soldiers. More were needed if France was to go to war. The King passed a series of laws that would mobolize France. In what must be the most massive re-armarment in the history of the world, France mobolized 120,000 troops in just two years. France was now ready to intervene. Tears streaked down the faces of men and women alike as 100,000 French troops paraded through Paris. The glory of France was restored.

The Invasion of Denmark

The War Plan of the CC: "Operation Nordic Hammer". An invasion of Poland by England, specifically the province of Danzig, to hurt the Polish economy's ability to support the war. A joint invasion of Denmark by France and the Netherlands, to open a corridor into Poland. With a 70,000 man force was dispatched to Denmark, France was now taking an active part in the war.

Peace

Denmark quickly fell to CC troops, and with Sweden launching an offensive into the north, Denmark was soon crushed. Not wishing to invade Poland, if it was not absolutly necessary, France offered terms. The terms were quickly accepted. White peace with Poland, and the Ottoman Empire. Denmark had to give up one province to the Netherlands. The world returned to peace, but the price was grave. Poland's army was in shambles, she had lost over 100,000 in the invasion of Russia. Russia did not get off any easier, with an untold number of dead. France had lost only 4,000 and is now fully mobolized. 180,000 troops now stand in the defense of France.

Colonization

With some colonial territory already secured, France began to look for expansion possiblity. While touring through London, communicating with English representatives, some maps of the world happened to fall into French hands... a lucky event indeed. With these France sent 40,000 soldiers to the new world, to secure an Empire. These efforts are just getting underway, and the fruits of these labors have not yet been realized.

France has been reborn.

Yours,
Regent Kleves, Minister of Foreign Affairs, on Behalf of the King of France

 

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SWeden 1577-1607

Although it started badly, these were good years for the Swedish kingdom. The peaceful alliance of Sweden and Russia(NEETO) were the victims of a dastardly plot by the CCCP, led by the perfidious Poles and supported by the heathen Turk.

In furtherance of this plot, these rogues apparently persuaded a confused and overly compliant Denmark to declare war on Sweden, designed to bring Russia in for its destruction, as Poland and the Ottomans had over 200k troops on the Russian border. Russia declined to aid Sweden for this exact reason, and the Swedes understood, although this meant Sweden was standing alone against the strongest alliance in the world.

Avoidance of the trap was not to be, and Poland and the Ottomans declared war on Russia and invaded, swarming over province after province.Meanwhile the Swedish army, having been somewhat prepared based on general misapprehension, met the Danish invader at our borders and threw them back into Norway. We were lucky to have the services of Horn, the elder, and funneling reinforcements to him, proceeded to play Danish whack-a-mole all over Norway.