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Jul 18, 2002
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Sweden

Actually, if Napoleon ever comes my way, let me know, and I will run away as fast as my little Swedish legs will carry me---I am pretty sure that it is the Spanish who wish to face Napoleon.
I heard them laughing about him in a bar a couple of nights ago.
 

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Ottoman Empire 1792-1808

The Sultan was pleased with this era. It brought him back to the glory days of the Empire when the Ottomans were a respected power.

The era started with the Ottomans still at war with the Empire of the Manchu along with our Russian allies. The war was prosecuted successfully and 4 provinces were brought into the one true faith including the valuable COT in the south.
The Sultan then had a clever idea.... Why not unite the Algerian crown with that of the Ottoman Empire? 20 of the Sultans most attractive daughters, begot from amongst his 117 wives, were sent to the Crown Prince of Algeria. This kept him busy enough while The Sultan's agents bribed enough of the Algerian army (A nice woolly Sheep for every soldier!) to effect a bloodless coup. Algeria was ours!

Then it was time to get involved in Western affairs once more. The Sultan approached his former allies and enemies in the East and proposed a Ragnorak Alliance that would hurl our vast hordes against the West. This alliance was readily agreed to by the former powers in the East - Russia, Sweden, Austria, and Poland. When war broke out between Spain and England vs France and Holland. The East prepared for war.

The Great Sultan commanded that the sharpest spears were to be handed out to our vast peasent levies. Every tenth man was issued a helmet, every 20th man was issued a flintlock and powder enough for 3 shots, and every 50th man was promoted to the rank of General to improve morale.
The armies of the Empire were ready. The Napoleonic armies (Land Tech 60) of France were about to face the wrath of the Ottomans (LT 30).

The Ottoman Empire accepted an alliance with our English friends and war was declared. Austria soon joined as well followed by The Tsar.

The war was, in a word, glorious. It brought the Sultan back to old times. The Empire's troops fought mostly in Northern Italy along with their brave Austrian allies. The battles raged back and forth in Lombardia, and Mantua. The highlight of the war for the Ottomans was the 2nd battle of Mantua. 140k Imperial troops faced off vs Marshall Massena and 120k French split in two armies.

The Jannissaries, wisely using them as a massive shield, drove the peasant levies into the gunfire of the French. The French fired and fired until their ammunition ran low and then the Ottoman cavalry swept across the battlefield. Two french armies were wiped out.
The Ottomans and Austrians were masters of Italy! ..... until Davout and another 100000 more troops showed up. The French engaged the Allied army in Lombardia while the wily Davout arranged to have a mass of pop ups appear before the eyes of the Turkish commander. By the time the pop ups were closed, the Allied army was completly destroyed.
Davout's command then proceeded into Austria driving the Allies higgilty-piggilyt into the hills as they ran from this superman. Venice, Tyrol, and The Steirmark were taken from Austria. The Ottomans, Austrians, and their Russian allies, gathered for a last stand at Vienna. However, the French had other distractions. Rather than continue to hit the Eastern punching bag, Davout (The Wily) pulled back into Italy and disappeared back into the darkness of France. The Allies once again emerged from where they were hiding and quickly moved back into Italy ready to continue the struggle.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A fun session indeed. We'll finish this game off next week. 13 years left in this war filled Campaign.

I forgot to make a save at the session end so I'm not sure what the victory points are. I do know that Spain is back in first, followed by Holland, then France and England. It's going to be close :D
 

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Sweden, at this point in the game you either acquire greatness by Death or you don't acquire at all...
 

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Dec 15, 2002
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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Spain and her alliance have:

- conducting an offensive war
didn't you declare war on spain/england, or am i remembering wrong?
 

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An Officer and a Gentleman
Feb 2, 2002
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Originally posted by tpc
didn't you declare war on spain/england, or am i remembering wrong?

They declared war on the Dutch, and I joined the Dutch alliance. ;)
 
Jul 18, 2002
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Greatness

uhh, ok---- death or greatness, deathly great, greatness in death, got it.

I heard those guys in the pub talking about Austria also--seems they think that Austria hasn't got the nerve to leave its nation to the AI enemy and take all available Austrian troops into France to find Napoleon and achieve death or greatness, or deathly greatness.
 

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Mar 18, 2002
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Originally posted by tpc
didn't you declare war on spain/england, or am i remembering wrong?

France tried convincing us that we needed to attack the Netherlands again. However, it was glaringly obvious that they were going to take the opportunity to dishonour and ally with the Dutch. Nonetheless, we decided to spring the trap. So, while this is technically a defensive war, the French obviously wanted it to happen.
 

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Originally posted by Shigure
France tried convincing us that we needed to attack the Netherlands again. However, it was glaringly obvious that they were going to take the opportunity to dishonour and ally with the Dutch. Nonetheless, we decided to spring the trap. So, while this is technically a defensive war, the French obviously wanted it to happen.

Though you obviously did want war as well, and you are the ones who attacked. :p
 

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Sea slug
Mar 18, 2002
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Victory Points, 1709 - 1808

Numbers may be off slightly due to rounding.
Code:
[color=white][b]               1709  1723  1741  1759  1770  1792  1808[/b]
[b]Austria        [/b]1525  1669  1736  1892  2005  2093  2144
[b]England        [/b]1707  1924  2129  2348  2494  2952  3451
[b]France         [/b]2339  2499  2737  2897  2941  3378  3499
[b]Netherlands    [/b]2035  2263  2785  3178  3443  3475  3744
[b]Ottoman Empire [/b]2350  2530  2418  2451  2533  2861  3081
[b]Poland         [/b] 708   736   754   742   732   770   805
[b]Russia         [/b] 835   517   722   958  1033  1254  1421
[b]Sweden         [/b]1213  1242  1252  1329  1370  1468  1635
[b]Spain          [/b]2824  2915  2925  3071  3180  3540  3751
[/color]

I would also like to mention that there are still some nations that have been taking missions... shockingly enough, including the Netherlands. I don't know what to say.
 

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Sea slug
Mar 18, 2002
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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Though you obviously did want war as well, and you are the ones who attacked. :p

I won't deny that. Just don't try to claim that you didn't want the war, since you obviously did. :D
 

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Re: Victory Points, 1709 - 1808

Originally posted by Shigure
I would also like to mention that there are still some nations that have been taking missions... shockingly enough, including the Netherlands. I don't know what to say.

You can tell that for sure? Perhaps they're event VPs?:confused:
 

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Sea slug
Mar 18, 2002
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Re: Re: Victory Points, 1709 - 1808

Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
You can tell that for sure? Perhaps they're event VPs?:confused:

Bah, we went over this the first time I pointed out that people were taking missions, over a century ago. They are exceedingly easy to find in the save file -- just do a search for "vpvalue". (As with the first time, I ran into this quite by accident searching for "vp".) Then page up to find which country took the mission. In this case, when I was going through the August 1792 save, I noticed:
Code:
[color=white]    mission = { 
        type = 1 
        id = { type = 4712 id = 6182523 } 
        date = { year = 1796 month = october day = 12 } 
        vpvalue = 20 
        penvalue = 13 
        province = 380 
        } 
[/color]

That's a "Hold Flandern" mission, I think. I'm shocked that satan would be taking missions, though.

In any case, we really need to talk Johan into disabling mission taking entirely unless the Dynamic Missions option is enabled or something. Otherwise, we may need to ignore mission points (this includes event-given VP like Versailles and whatnot) entirely. :(
 

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Dec 15, 2002
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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Spain and her alliance have:

-The two strongest economies in the world.
-The two strongest navies in the world
- the 2nd and 3rd best armies in the world
-the most Vps in the world
-more combined manpower than France
- more combined troops than France
- conducting an offensive war

And yet somehow they needed to be saved?

Or was it merely a Napoleon bash? A war because the powers were "bored"?

It seems people have given up trying to improve their nations, and just want to get in on some action, and maybe fight a battle against Napoleon.
while i empathize w/ you kleves, i do not sympathize. :)

imo, i think you made a mistake in not pressuring the netherlands not to attack hessen, which was an obvious provocation of the swedes & the poles. (i think it is possible that satan & you thought we were so insignificant in terms of our power that it didn't quite matter what we thought at the time. :) ) it was even more annoying when netherlands/austria refused to peace out even though it was clear that the swedes had accepted peace w/ austria in the belief that that wd be an end to the general war in northern germany. the rather harsh peace enforced on hessen by the netherlands (& not, significantly, austria) further upset his neighbors.

i'm not saying you didn't make a political effort to keep us out -- we spoke in-b/tw sessions -- just that the attack on hessen was unnecessary to either the french or dutch position & provocative (& my guess is probably driven by victory point considerations.) i do know that prior to hessen the swedes were more interested in revenge on another party altogether. :)

i think that although spain's plea for help was maybe slightly overdone, it did look like the war b/tw the two of you had been finished rather quickly given that you offed duke wellington so quickly. you gave poland, at least, no guarantees of safety following such a victory & had been the primary sponsor of an earlier austrian attack on poland. the dutch had similarly made no such guarantee. furthermore, the dutch had refused a royal marriage proposal. indeed, there has been no diplomatic activity b/tw the dutch & poland since the 16th century. thus joining the war to prevent a land/victory-point grab at the end seemed reasonable. (yet another reason to discount vp's ... the tendency to do non-strategically useful/interest-based things in order to get them in the end.)

there was also -- from poland's perspective -- an old debt to pay both the netherlands & france. :)

&, yes, it's less boring to be in the war than just to watch it ... that, too. :)
 

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Re: Re: Re: Victory Points, 1709 - 1808

Originally posted by Shigure
In any case, we really need to talk Johan into disabling mission taking entirely unless the Dynamic Missions option is enabled or something. Otherwise, we may need to ignore mission points (this includes event-given VP like Versailles and whatnot) entirely. :(
i, for one, think that a good way to approach the modifying of victory points is to:

a) eliminate all missions points from the total
b) eliminate all discovery points from the total
c) eliminate all diplomacy points from the total

then find the average score reached by each country & then handicap countries on the base of average historical performance & whomever bids the highest over said average.
 
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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
Poland is not the worst offender, tpc. I can understand your reasons. :D
so the only person's whose reasons you're really asking for clarification for is the OE's, eh?
 

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Originally posted by tpc
so the only person's whose reasons you're really asking for clarification for is the OE's, eh?

The Russians would be nice. Oh, and the Swedes, who keep taking stab hits to re-enter. Don't forget the Austrians, who cite some betrayal, even while stabbing their faithful Dutch ally in the back.

;)
 

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re: victory point options

for those who are curious, i'm placing what our victory point totals are now, divied by category, & then what the modified vp's wd be if we got rid of diplomacy, mission & discovery victory points.

Code:
23 sep 1808
[color=silver]cntry	tot vp	mil		econ			dip	miss
		peace	battle	econ	disc	est[/color]
[color=orange]spain	3751	109	445	2506	217	59	542	-129[/color][color=red]
neth	3746	502	502	2364	40	72	247	17[/color][color=dark red]
france	3503	482	1092	774	66	23	503	561[/color][color=green]
england	3441	362	431	1680	271	82	391	223[/color][color=deeppink]
oe	3081	153	1115	1186	0	23	626	-23[/color][color=tomato]
austria	2144	-29	352	115	7	1	1027	630[/color][color=purple]
sweden	1634	59	563	464	0	6	280	260[/color][color=sienna]
russia	1523	-101	397	407	126	75	328	290[/color][color=teal]
poland	805	115	289	40	0	2	472	-115[/color]

modified it looks like:

Code:
[color=silver]cntry	tot vp	mil		econ
		peace	battle	econ	est[/color]
[color=red]
neth	3440	502	502	2364	72[/color]
[color=orange]spain	3119	109	445	2506	59[/color]
[color=green]england	2556	362	432	1680	82[/color]
[color=deeppink]oe	2477	153	1115	1186	23[/color]
[color=dark red]france	2371	482	1092	774	23[/color]
[color=purple]sweden	1092	59	563	464	6[/color]
[color=sienna]russia	778	-101	397	407	75[/color]
[color=teal]poland	446	115	289	40	2[/color]
[color=tomato]austria	439	-29	352	115	1[/color]

shig has pointed out to me that for force vassalization you get 10 peace resolution pnts & 20 diplomatic victory points -- i certainly think you ought to get the full 30 pnts which is not the case in the modification above. although i think france shd be firmly in the lead & the above does not show that, i think that my opinion is based in part on expectations of success in the napoleonic period & that the graph does show his relative economic weakness.
 
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Originally posted by KlevesWarrior
The Russians would be nice. Oh, and the Swedes, who keep taking stab hits to re-enter. Don't forget the Austrians, who cite some betrayal, even while stabbing their faithful Dutch ally in the back.

;)
well, i think i answered the reasons for the swedish intervention above.

in terms of the austrians, perhaps you've forgotten that france was part of the polish/oe coalition that brought him so low so early in the game (& not even due to his playing, but to the sub's.) in any case, the austrians have proven very difficult to count on in this game a number of times ... no reason to be so surprised at their change of heart this time! :)

the russians, i can see there being some argument for them staying out. but, then, the eastern powers did go out of their way to restore them to a position of relative prominence in the east ... pay back wasn't such a stretch of the imagination. :)
 

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Oh, Hush folks... The East's involvement was for one reason! And we all know it, Dave and me wanted some of the good Ole Days ;) He couldn't get there without MA from me and a general support group. The King Relives his Glory days!!! LONG LIVE THE SULTAN!!! :p at 160 something inflation I dout I would mind the AI down time that TPC got for 5-10 years and peace. Boring, Bahhh... I'd rather die fighting! Not only that but if me TPC and Dave knew all the Slider-Religion-Diplomacy Loopholes you guys used<I still know some of you know far more than some of us. Not just about game mechanics EITHER> we'd be that much better off despite a few mission points, etc... I'd rather die for the Nobles Cause! If it's any sign I let my government in Tues Fall for Russia in the boresights of the Selfish Polacks and Greedy Swedes. I'd rather die than feed the fiends! If I had no chance of victory!

As far as Hessen is concerned, they don't look like they're hurting any! :p I'd prefer have their economy a few centuries to mine! It's not possible to run a War Machine with 10Ducats per month!

BTW: The Battles in Italy which however small in comparison with the clamoring of iron against iron in the Brittany, The Lowlands, section of France the constant run of Napoleon and his soldieers through Gerona Fortress pouring out into the Countryside of Iberia. THEY WERE HOWEVER EQUAL to have Devout Devoted to pushing them back :p So regardless of what happens now I got a taste of some Modern Day Action yet my goosed was well cooked several wars ago!
 
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