Moving Capital

[unmerged(37697)]

I shan't make this into one of my rants, but suffice to say that during the period 1453 - 1792, several monarchs/nations moved their capitals for various reasons.

Here's an example of an event from the AGCEEP:

#(1750-1820) Move Court to Brazil
event = {
	id = 18023
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 209 data = -1 }
		control = { province = 209 data = -1 }
		NOT = { provincereligion = { province = 209 data = pagan } } #Not a TP
		NOT = { control = { province = 441 data = -1 } }
	}
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME18023" #Move Court to Brazil
	desc = "EVENTHIST18023"
	#-#Lisbon has fallen to our enemies, should we move the court to Brazil?

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1750 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME18023A" #Flee to Brazil!
		command = { type = population which = 209 value = 20000 } #Salvador
		command = { type = capital which = 209 } #Salvador
		command = { type = addcore which = 209 } #Salvador
		command = { type = fortress which = 209 value = 1 } #Salvador
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = MERCANTILISM value = -5 }
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME18023B" #Stay in Portugal
		command = { type = stability value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 18024 } #POR: Return to Lisbon
	}
}

#(1750-1820) Return to Lisbon
event = {
	id = 18024
	trigger = {
		event = 18023
		owned = { province = 441 data = -1 }
		control = { province = 441 data = -1 }
	}
	random = no
	country = POR
	name = "EVENTNAME18024" #Return to Lisbon
	desc = "EVENTHIST18024"
	#-#Lisbon has been freed from foreign domination and belongs to the throne of Portugal once again. Shall we move back home, or is Brazil to be our permanenthome?

	date = { day = 2 month = january year = 1750 }
	offset = 10
	deathdate = { year = 1820 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME18024A" #Return to Lisbon
		command = { type = capital which = 441 } #Tago
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
		command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 1 }
		command = { type = trigger which = 18025 } #POR: Brazilian Independence
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME18024B" #Stay in Brazil
		command = { type = stability value = -2 }
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 }
		command = { type = revolt which = 441 } #Tago
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 18025 } #POR: Brazilian Independence
	}
}

I think this is a concise but effective event for moving one's capital, and of course moving it back. Hopefully, with EUIII's event system, some sort of generic event for moving one's capital every now and then will be included, depending on the situation.

For example, if I have a city which has incredibly high tax & trade levels, a good fort, high manpower, and the correct religion & culture, then chances are it's in my best interests to move my capital there.

Johan said in one of the interviews that it would be possible to move capitals, but not a regular thing - or something along those lines.

Anyway, hope an event or two for this sort of thing has been included, and if not, can be now

 

[unmerged(60670)]

I shan't make this into one of my rants, but suffice to say that during the period 1453 - 1792, several monarchs/nations moved their capitals for various reasons.

I think this is a concise but effective event for moving one's capital, and of course moving it back. Hopefully, with EUIII's event system, some sort of generic event for moving one's capital every now and then will be included, depending on the situation.

For example, if I have a city which has incredibly high tax & trade levels, a good fort, high manpower, and the correct religion & culture, then chances are it's in my best interests to move my capital there.

Johan said in one of the interviews that it would be possible to move capitals, but not a regular thing - or something along those lines.

Anyway, hope an event or two for this sort of thing has been included, and if not, can be now

Or like Peter I moved capital of Russia from Moscow to St.Petersburg. He made it because he wanted to make powerfull city in that extremely important for Russia place. There was no big city or high tax return. This was purely strategic step.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Or like Peter I moved capital of Russia from Moscow to St.Petersburg. He made it because he wanted to make powerfull city in that extremely important for Russia place. There was no big city or high tax return. This was purely strategic step.

Yes, I know. It'd be nice if we could do that sort of thing in EUIII as well

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Yea, I agree. You should be able to put your capital wherever you want it to be.

 

[unmerged(30761)]

If you able to move your capital to such a location that the enemy can not reach it then you can have conditions that would not allow the enemy to get a high warscore on you. and vice versa.

 

[Vladislav]

Maybe the capital could just move automatically, like in HoI.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Well, an absolute monarch would be able to move his capital wherever he wants. for example peter the great.

 

[MacGregor]

Well, an absolute monarch would be able to move his capital wherever he wants. for example peter the great.

Ahh, but that was the exception to the rule. While France often had to move the Court, it is a bit harder to just up and "move the capital." If they do have such an ability, there must be some sort of serious negative consequence to prevent capital moving just for gaming purposes (i.e., move to enhance pop growth; establish larger pop, move again).

 

[Registered]

Ahh, but that was the exception to the rule. While France often had to move the Court, it is a bit harder to just up and "move the capital." If they do have such an ability, there must be some sort of serious negative consequence to prevent capital moving just for gaming purposes (i.e., move to enhance pop growth; establish larger pop, move again).

Agreed, but i think Duke's point was that the capital should not move randomly as it does in HOI2.
In an yevent, it should not be possible to, voluntarily, move the capital to non-core non-culture provinces.

 

[Assos]

The Spanish, before the merger of kingdoms, use to have the capital where ever the court was. So, as long as your monarch lives, the capital shall be.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Some good points

I think that EUIII should be (and I believe, will be) more about decisions the player makes, as opposed to what he is more or less restricted to do by events.

Peter the Great happened to move Russia's capital circa 1700, but that doesn't mean that Ivan the Terrible couldn't have moved it during his reign, or Felipe V decided that the Spanish Bourbon court should be in Seville, not the ancient Habsburg capital of Madrid.

See what I mean?

It should be possible (within reason; so as not to abuse the feature) to move your nation's capital - perhaps only when not at war? - for whatever reason you desire, so long as you meet the correct requirements.

For example, an absolute monarchy/republic (ie, Louis XIV/Cromwell) should be able to move the capital wherever they please, so long as they live with the consequences, whatever they may be.

However, more democratic/less authrotarian government-types maybe wouldn't be able to do so, perhaps at a base level just because they wouldn't have enough votes to move it

If I want to move my capital, along with all the institutions and mechanisms of government that come with it, then I don't see why I shouldn't be able to. It's about making your history, afterall

 

[Duuk]

So long as a capital can be annexed without annexing the whole country, I'm in.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

So long as a capital can be annexed without annexing the whole country, I'm in.

Absolutely. After the peace treaty (ie, when you've ceded your capital to the enemy), you'd then select where you wanted your capital to be

 

[unmerged(60670)]

Sounds good, but can you give some historical examples of this happened?

 

[unmerged(8000)]

One should be able to move one's capital but it should also incur a stability drop, a cost and perhaps it should take a period of time, months or years depending on distance and geographical factors.

I think these drawbacks would tend to make these changes sufficiantly rare so as not to affect the games playbility.

 

[Featauril]

Well, there's

Russia : Moscow -> St-Petersburg
Ottoman Empire : Whichever => Iztanbul
Papal States : Rome => Avignon => Rome

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Krakow to Warsaw also.
And, don't forget about the Habsburg empire. Their capital was whichever city the Emperor decided to set up shop in. Sometimes it was Prague, sometimes Vienna. And you could even throw in Madrid as the Spanish holdings.

How about Burgundy? They moved from Bourgone to some place in the lowlands.
How about New York to Philadelphia to Washington D.C.?
These are just the easy european examples of a capital moving. How many times did it happen in the other parts of the world? Probably a lot.

Simple fact is, the ruler should be able to choose wherever he wants for a capital.

 

[unmerged(4444)]

Off the top of my head, from the EU period:

Timurids: Samarqand -> Herat
Safavids (Persia): Tabriz -> Qazvin -> Isfahan
Mughals: Agra -> Fatehpur Sikri -> Lahore -> Agra
Ming (China): Nanjing -> Beijing

It seems like a good idea, IF there are certain penalties/restrictions attached, and if the AI can be prevented from capital-hopping.

 

[Raze]

Ok here's how it should be. Moving your capital should be allowed in this sense. You should be allowed to move your capital to any province which is your national province. But you should be restricted, similar to the frequency in which you are allowed to change national policy. Maybe you should be allowed to move your capital say maybe once every 100 years. But I do agree that there should be some lessening of stability. And if your capital is lost during war. You should be able to choose the location of a temporary capital. If the war ends with a white peace or with you as the victor, your capital should automaticly return to it's default location.

 

[DukeWilleo1630]

Ok here's how it should be. Moving your capital should be allowed in this sense. You should be allowed to move your capital to any province which is your national province. But you should be restricted, similar to the frequency in which you are allowed to change national policy. Maybe you should be allowed to move your capital say maybe once every 100 years. But I do agree that there should be some lessening of stability. And if your capital is lost during war. You should be able to choose the location of a temporary capital. If the war ends with a white peace or with you as the victor, your capital should automaticly return to it's default location.

But, in many instances, a country gained stability by moving their capital. How will this be modeled? I say allow us to move our capital no restrictions except national core. Besides, the capturing of the capital was never the most important object in military campaigns. It was the capturing of the most important city, which may not be the capital.