Movement when blitzing

[Chief75]

What is the best way to get around the problem of divisions stopping for around 100 hours after capturing a province? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

So far I have come up with only two possibilities myself...research the thing in the human wave tech tree or occupy a province and then move fresh troops in to attack the next province. I don't think either option is very good though. I hope some of you have better ideas/solutions and don't mind sharing.

Please let me know if you are unsure of what I mean.

 

[Raptor1]

Research the doctrine that reduces the time after attacks, that seems to be the only way besides fresh troops.

 

[Tharkun]

Or maybe convince P, that this "feature" is utterly unrealistic and it should be removed.

 

[neonknight_ger]

The delay is not for invading into a province but for attacking enemy units (or defending while moving). So you will be able to move units with that red x further even into enemy territory, though they will be halted in the moment of enemy contact.

Besides the techs that reduce attack delays, you can circumvent this issue to some extend by using more than one division per attack. Set only the lead division to attack, all other to support attack: These will not get that red x, though they won´t move to the target province; which is imho no big issue because they can catch up quite fast with strategic deployment (just make sure there are no enemy bombers around).

 

[notger.heinz]

Wait, did you just say that after I attacked a province, I can immediately move to the next un-occupied province?

It seems something really eluded my grasp.

 

[Castun]

The delay is not for invading into a province but for attacking enemy units (or defending while moving). So you will be able to move units with that red x further even into enemy territory, though they will be halted in the moment of enemy contact.

Are you certain of this? It seems to me that if they have the red x, the progress bar never changes even when trying to move into unoccupied provinces. I know you can still give them attack orders on an occupied province and they wait to attack until the delay is over. Maybe it's just difficult for me to tell because I play with counters instead of the animated sprites, and there doesn't seem to be any other way of telling if a unit is actually moving...

 

[fflaguna]

Are you certain of this? It seems to me that if they have the red x, the progress bar never changes even when trying to move into unoccupied provinces. I know you can still give them attack orders on an occupied province and they wait to attack until the delay is over. Maybe it's just difficult for me to tell because I play with counters instead of the animated sprites, and there doesn't seem to be any other way of telling if a unit is actually moving...

Yes, I can confirm that even if they have the red X, they can still move into empty enemy territory.

 

[Charles Louis]

There are two solutions for this totally realistic feature. One is to attack in a leap frog (or cover and move) style, attacking with 1st corps while 2nd waits to move, then having 2nd corps move forward and attack a deeper target while 1st corps recovers.

A second, complimentary tactic, is to make your attack go longer than one province. First, one brigade of tired and defeated infantry won't reduce your organization much, so assume you'll roll through to attack the real target behind him. Second, if he reinforces and you need to stop the attack, no harm done.

Using this method, you can take Poland in six or seven weeks.

 

[neonknight_ger]

Using this method, you can take Poland in six or seven weeks.

Sorry, but I had to laugh as I read this.

It took me less than 10 days to deal with Poland.

Due to the lack of mobilization ai countries are ridiculous weak.

 

[Zaku]

Yes, I can confirm that even if they have the red X, they can still move into empty enemy territory.

No they won't.
They will get the orders, the arrow will show the objective, but they won't actually start moving until the delay timer is on 0.

If you want to blitz, forget the AI control. Break trough with infantry, and exploit the gap with the fresh armored divisions.

 

[neonknight_ger]

No they won't.
They will get the orders, the arrow will show the objective, but they will actually start moving until the delay timer is on 0.

Hm I will have to test this.

 

[Henri]

Sorry, but I had to laugh as I read this.

It took me less than 10 days to deal with Poland.

Starting in 1936? Sure, considering how one can abuse the system; but how fast can you do it starting with the 1939 scenario. If you can do it in 6 days (or even 10), I need lessons from you...

Henri

 

[neonknight_ger]

Starting in 1936? Sure, considering how one can abuse the system; but how fast can you do it starting with the 1939 scenario. If you can do it in 6 days (or even 10), I need lessons from you...

Henri

I must admit I haven´t tried the 1939 scenario yet, but I don´t know which abuse you speak of; I selected some panzer divisions and right clicked on Warsaw, that was the whole trick. I wasn´t even paying attention at this time because I concentrated on breaking through the maginot line.

As I wrote, the ai countries are far too weak, you can easily conquer Moscow within six weeks without any opposition besides from the initial fights with severly understrengthed border garisons. This was the point when I stopped playing and decided to wait for the next patch.

 

[notger.heinz]

It took me eight weeks to finish Barbarossa, with the main fighting taking place in the first two weeks. After that, all of the under-strength russian forces had been surrounded it was only a matter of getting to Stalingrad and Baku.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Well, the problem with the current Theatre AI is that it don't grasp the concept of keeping a strategic reserve. It station "Reserve" divisions directly on the border where they are annihilated on first contact.

What the AI (or any human playing the game for that matter) should do is to place non "Reserve" Garrison units in defensible terrain to slow enemy advances down in any initial surprise attack and keep reserve forces away from the border so they have some time to prepare after a war is declared. When a country places divisions directly on your border there should be a threat indicator and it should be possible to raise the mobilization laws due to local threat depending on the number of divisions that are put on the border, this is something that could help in the game.

As I said the AI don't keep any strategic reserve forces which make any sort of breakthrough impossible to stop. It is stupid to put all divisions on the border unless you outnumber and intend to attack your opponent, even then it is mandatory to keep a small reserve in the interior of your country.

During peace (even when the threat levels are rising you should only put a small number of units directly on the border unless you can defend it properly with fortifications and enough army units (which must be mobilized). Keep the majority of the units back until they are needed and shield reserve division in the interior of the country until they have gained enough strength to be committed into combat.

I think that it is quite hard to create a very good AI, but I do have hopes that PI will evolve their current AI and that it will be quite good in a couple of months or maybe even a year.

Another problem are the fact that the player are using the game rules to know when to withdraw forces from a front and Zerg the opponent on another front, such as players do with Germany. You attack Poland and then most people withdraw their whole army and invade France within a couple of weeks, knowing full well that Soviet will not invade because their neutrality will not allow it yet. The real Germany could not rely on such Intel and neither should you as a player do these kind of moves to keep things in perspective. If you try to act more realistic within the game you will sort of handicap yourself and the game will automatically be harder. Simulate a break in the war between offensives to mean that your top leaders need time to plan for the new invasion etc... this will all make the game more pleasant in the end for you.

 

[grunt123]

Historically, SU actually deployed their ill-prepared troops along frontline borders right before Barbarossa. They has no idea (or didn't think) that Germany would attack them, and German achieved 'strategic' surprise along all front in the summer of 1941. And, because SU troops were forward-deployed, German was able to breakthrough several weak points and encircle huge number of SU troops. That was why German High Command had an illusion that they managed to destroy the whole SU war capability within first 6 weeks of the campaign. (As Halder noted in his diary) ... But, German generals made a grave mistake by underestimating the vast manpower pool SU could use for her war efforts.

As for the gameplay, i feel that SU should have mixture of reserve (or rather partly mobilized) and regular divisions along borderline.

Well, the problem with the current Theatre AI is that it don't grasp the concept of keeping a strategic reserve. It station "Reserve" divisions directly on the border where they are annihilated on first contact.

What the AI (or any human playing the game for that matter) should do is to place non "Reserve" Garrison units in defensible terrain to slow enemy advances down in any initial surprise attack and keep reserve forces away from the border so they have some time to prepare after a war is declared. When a country places divisions directly on your border there should be a threat indicator and it should be possible to raise the mobilization laws due to local threat depending on the number of divisions that are put on the border, this is something that could help in the game.

As I said the AI don't keep any strategic reserve forces which make any sort of breakthrough impossible to stop. It is stupid to put all divisions on the border unless you outnumber and intend to attack your opponent, even then it is mandatory to keep a small reserve in the interior of your country.

During peace (even when the threat levels are rising you should only put a small number of units directly on the border unless you can defend it properly with fortifications and enough army units (which must be mobilized). Keep the majority of the units back until they are needed and shield reserve division in the interior of the country until they have gained enough strength to be committed into combat.

I think that it is quite hard to create a very good AI, but I do have hopes that PI will evolve their current AI and that it will be quite good in a couple of months or maybe even a year.

Another problem are the fact that the player are using the game rules to know when to withdraw forces from a front and Zerg the opponent on another front, such as players do with Germany. You attack Poland and then most people withdraw their whole army and invade France within a couple of weeks, knowing full well that Soviet will not invade because their neutrality will not allow it yet. The real Germany could not rely on such Intel and neither should you as a player do these kind of moves to keep things in perspective. If you try to act more realistic within the game you will sort of handicap yourself and the game will automatically be harder. Simulate a break in the war between offensives to mean that your top leaders need time to plan for the new invasion etc... this will all make the game more pleasant in the end for you.

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

As Soviet Union that could be OK, but only if you place a small part of the total army there, You should have at least as much reserve troops deep inside the country to simulate those unfinished and in reserve status divisions that met the Germans as they advanced.
The Russians was building up for an eventual attack, so this was understandable, the Germans just beat them to the punch...

The AI just put EVERYTHING on the border, there are perhaps only a few stray divisions defending in the interior. This means that any breakthrough can go straight for all the victory locations and you win the war in no-time.

In my opinion the AI should have about 25-50% of their forces securing the interior, depending on the stance of the AI. 50% for defensive and 25% when blitzing. This will make the AI harder to fight. The AI should also consider to create more divisions so they can cover a greater area with with on both offense and defense.
The AI should also consider defending ports/airfields and industrial areas more aggressively and retreat more easily in uninteresting areas.

 

[neonknight_ger]

It is right, the soviets historically made the strategic misstake mentioned above (the poles btw. did deploy their troops to close to the borders, too).

I don´t complain about this being in the game, but I strongly miss the comeback the Red Army had late 1941!

 

[Jorgen_CAB]

Anyone can make a Strategical miscalculation, like the Poles did. Though, in their defense, they thought that their army were better prepared than it really was. German tank concentration and air superiority sealed their fate early in the war. They did have some strategic depth but it was too small and were easily defeated by the German spearhead units.

The problem with the AI are that it continuously make this error and it is always so predictable. I say that the AI should pick a strategy and keep either a small or a large strategic reserve. Even the Poles had one and the Russians certainly had one. The Germans just believed they put everything on the border.
I don't think the Poles would survive much longer against the German army in -39 no matter where they placed their armies, though they could have fought longer for sure.

On the topic of this thread... you may order units to move but they will still wait the full number of hours before they move. So initiating the order will not do much difference but making sure that they get moving as soon as possible.
Leapfrogging units are a good way too simulate a breakthrough.
I never attack with more than one division and put the rest on support attack. As soon as the attack is over I move all units that I wish to do the breakthrough into the area.
When I line up my army for an attack I usually attack with my infantry and break in with my armored and motorized units. I usually also send in an infantry corps to plug the hole and then begin attacking neighboring units in the flank with supportive attacks.

 

[unmerged(150331)]

Just a note: for any of a number of political reasons, leaders often find it necessary to deploy troops to defend all their territory (or at least populated territory) even when generals tell them a better and less risky defensive line lies in the interior.

Be glad there isn't a rule that "encourages" human players to garrison all their frontier provinces (dissent penalty, lack of confidence in the government, weaker party control, increased risk of coup, seen as weak by foreign powers, etc).