Movement rate toggle

[unmerged(76922)]

Thinking about railroads and other such things brought me back to an old idea I had for HoI2 and this seems as good a time as any to bring it up. Basicly, I always found it funny that units really only have 1 speed, modified in some situations of course. Basicly, I would love to see a button somewhere on the army list (something like the supply for offensive button) that you could click to cycle through speeds.

Default would be tactical speed, which is what HoI2 uses and represents movement in areas where you expect to find the enemy. Units would be at their full capacity for combat, but would move at a relatively slower speed as they send out scouts, try to avoid getting caught in an ambush, move through more difficult terrain to get to idea possitions, and otherwise generally adjust to the enemy presence.

Next would be strategic-local. This is for relatively short moves in secured areas and represents things like tossing tanks on low-boys, troops into supply trucks, and just running down the road. Noticably faster then tactical, but troops take a significant combat penalty (say 40%?)

Finally would be strategic-global for long distance movement. Combat penalties would be very high (80%) but speed would be also be very high and higher infastruction levels would result in even larger bonuses (representing rails). This would replace the current strategic redeployment, which I've never much liked since air power could have still hit troops that were redeploying.

 

[Lazy_Boy]

Sounds reasonable to me. Should really combine that with different kinds of attack and retreat orders. There's definitely a difference between all out blitz and just "attack". Also between broken retreat and a planned one with a rear guard.

 

[Hptm. Jaadoo]

Generally i think it's a good idea, but i would reduce it to two speeds, because more would result in micromanagment, and if i don't have that in the area of industry etc, i don't want it in the area of moving troops and combat

 

[unmerged(127904)]

Yeah 2 lvl would be great- its much better than the old redeployement. Units are then invisible by enemies and cant be attacked. We all know how significant it was IRL for allies to dominate the sky and controll the movement of german troops.

 

[Alexander Seil]

While I support a strategic redeployment mode (where the unit would be vulnerable, unable to attack, etc.), having different speeds for advance is definitely way too much micromanagement. Way, way too much.

 

[unmerged(127904)]

The difference is where?
Here u set the same - u can call it strategic redeployement if u will. Here propsition is Tactical (standard) and Strategical (redeployement) movement. The units dont get off the map - u move them where u want but faster. If u make strategic redeployement and units wont get off the map then where is the difference? In name? Its not important to me how will it be called but how will it work.
Micromenagement? When u want to redeploy u have to clik. What is the difference in here? U have to click. Thats all.

EDIT
i do not like the 3 lvl of movement - i suggest 2 as i mentioned above

 

[Lazy_Boy]

3 types isn't really necessary because I believe they're making speed a factor in attacking. More resistance = less movement speed. Gives a reason to put up a fight on the retreat too. Moving behind your own lines wouldn't really be any faster than moving into unoccupied lands.

Strategic redeployment should be extremely fast on-map movement with zero org and very low defense stats. And can only occur in provinces with high infrastructure to represent rail lines. So no more redeployment to Siberia or the middle of isolated mountain ranges. The supply system should help eliminate these ridiculous dozen+ division battles in areas that couldn't support 1 but still need realistic limitations on redeploying.

 

[unmerged(44926)]

Apart from the strategic redeployment, this can just be abstracted by making troops move faster when in high inf. provinces not bordering any enemy troops, and moving slower when engaged in battle, or moving through recently occupied territory, when compared to just rolling through friendly territory.

Why give the option to choose speed when there really won't ever be any point in going any slower than you can get away with, depending on terrain and whether or not you are in range of enemy forces? That's just another layer of micromanagement that will lead to extra clicking, and cause player frustration when it is forgetten about.

 

[chridder]

Apart from the strategic redeployment, this can just be abstracted by making troops move faster when in high inf. provinces not bordering any enemy troops, and moving slower when engaged in battle, or moving through recently occupied territory, when compared to just rolling through friendly territory.

Why give the option to choose speed when there really won't ever be any point in going any slower than you can get away with, depending on terrain and whether or not you are in range of enemy forces? That's just another layer of micromanagement that will lead to extra clicking, and cause player frustration when it is forgetten about.

Agreed!

 

[Danielefc]

As long as they eliminate the damned "magical" strategic redeployment. Hated that I could almost never encircle and destroy enemy divisions when playing as Germans versus a human Soviet player. Because once a trap became apparent the divisions would just make a Houdini 200km away.

I would prefer the original 3 movement speeds suggested - but 2 would still be a major improvement!

 

[unmerged(105596)]

Very interesting ideas here. This kind of thing could really help with SR problems, and would be more or less simple. Nice work OP!

 

[Jmland]

Basicly, I always found it funny that units really only have 1 speed, modified in some situations of course. Basicly, I would love to see a button somewhere on the army list (something like the supply for offensive button) that you could click to cycle through speeds.

Basically, your talking about "march formation" and "combat formation"
I like the idea, but there are more implications that would need to be addressed:

1. Supply usage-In march formation, you would use less supplies than in combat formation (because all your troops/assets are on the main supply route, and no extra fuel needed to get the supplies to the dispersed elements).
2. Command and control: IF (and only if) orders are capable of being given by echelon (ie all units of the 5th Guards Tank Army) at one time, then micromanagement could be significantly reduced. If not, this is probably a dead issue.
3. What is the default? In peacetime? In wartime in a safe theater? within 3 provences of the front? currently under air attack? what parameters determine this?
4. What effect (if any) do the various leader skills have on this?
5. How long does it take to change formation? IRL, anywhere from 6 hours to a day for a division sized element, depending on lots of things like weather, terrain, training level of the troops, whether this was a planned event or reaction to enemy contact/activity.
6. Typically, division elements in march are moving from one division base to another. If they get hit by enemy ground forces while IN MARCH, they only have the supplies they have with them (in trucks or rucks), until more can be brought up, something which will have to be organized on the fly by the division staff (assuming they are not in the firing line). This means that something resembling "out of supply" could happen in this case.

 

[Alexander Seil]

2. Command and control: IF (and only if) orders are capable of being given by echelon (ie all units of the 5th Guards Tank Army) at one time, then micromanagement could be significantly reduced. If not, this is probably a dead issue.

Ordering formations around was in the original announcement, and some tidbits in the dev. diaries (Johan's references to a more sophisticated order system) seems to suggest that this will be the case.

I've developed quite a theory in another thread that the preferred command level in HOI3 will be the Corps, not the division